Author Topic: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.  (Read 15595 times)

Offline Mira

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2020, 09:54:18 PM »
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But the island could make deals with Mab and bonea. The island could take decisions about how to handle the ladies. I think it was not fully awake during turncoat. It has to develop skills for communicating with Harry as well.

Remember in Cold Days this is was the main reason why Harry "borrowed" Bob from Butters, he needed Bob to translate what Alfred was trying to tell him about how the place functioned.  Bob had to "dumb" down a lot of instructions for Harry.

As far as deals with Mab and Bonea, they were pretty basic, shelter Harry and keep him alive until Uriel was done teaching his lesson.  Alfred didn't want to lose his new caretaker. page 474
Ghost Story, Alfred explains.
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OUR INTERESTS COINCIDED.

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At the same time, I feel like the Wardens had already convinced themselves that he was, so whatever he'd say would be either ignored or construed as deception. I don't disagree that he should have said, flat-out, "No. Hell no." but I'm not sure they would have believed him at all...

Yeah, I don't think it would have made any difference whether or not he admitted to having sex with Murphy.  The Wardens were implying that he was having sex with Lara, which he wasn't.  Harry is a gentleman, he doesn't kiss and tell, and he isn't going to reveal his sex partner if it had nothing to do with the situation at hand.  At that point he really didn't know a heck of a lot more than the Wardens did, except who Thomas is, and that might have only made things worse.   

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2020, 10:24:40 PM »
I think the theory is less that they want to throw away Eb, but want to put him in line. From what we've seen the Senior Council was originally divided into two Blocks; The Merlin, Mai, and La Fortier on one side and Simon, LTW, and Martha Liberty on the other, with Rashid largely away from things. Then Simon and La Fortier died and it became The Merlin and Mai on one side with Eb, LTW and Martha Liberty on the other, with Christos playing for power.

Essentially, The Merlin could be holding a death sentence over Harry's head to re-establish control over the Senior Council from Eb's Block. Politics.

Not sure I buy it though.
I don't see how that works. The next time the full Senior Council is in session, Eb can just undo it, unless the Gatekeeper was part of the unanimous vote.

Offline Icecream

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2020, 11:13:41 PM »
I feel like there may be a play going on.

They might genuinely believe Harry is compromised so by not associating with Dresden , if he does anything to piss off the other signatories they not liable for what he does.

Or Maybe someone blackmailed the Merlin. Mab might have pee tapes of the Merlin or something 🤣

Offline Dina

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2020, 11:20:22 PM »
Icecream!!! Long time no seeing you! How are you doing? (((((IC)))))

My problem is what "compromised" means. If they mean that Mab could use him for things they don't want...well, expelling him allows her to do exactly that.
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Dina

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #34 on: October 06, 2020, 11:23:31 PM »
Yeah, Harry was a total moron with Carlos in PT.

Carlos: "Bro, are you fucking the evil vampire queen"

Harry: "Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, how dare you ask me about my personal life you asshole"

Like jesus dude, are you fucking trying to make him think that you are enthralled???

And then, to rescue Thomas, they make everyone believe that...he was fucking the evil vampire queen. And then, the next time Carlos says "you lied to us"  he plays offended.
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #35 on: October 06, 2020, 11:28:23 PM »
This. Entirely this. Harry's just a pawn/excuse here in hardball politics by centuries-old wizards.

Carlos even told Harry -- "By unanimous vote, they have already given the Blackstaff the order to execute your death warrant, and suspended it. If you cross the line, they'll send him. And if he won't do it, he'll be charged with treason."

This is the Merlin's ultimate Sword of Damocles to hold over Eb's head -- passed by a "unanimous vote", while Eb and LtW were in the hospital and Rashid was at the Outer Gates.

Unanimous vote would in this case be The Merlin, Ancient Mai and Martha Liberty (the latter having just had the shit scared out of her by Harry and the Za Lords Guard) Martha didn’t see anything of Harry in Battle, and the other two have always been against Harry.

Offline Dina

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #36 on: October 06, 2020, 11:45:18 PM »
Uh, what about Christos?
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline ClintACK

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2020, 11:51:05 PM »
Martha Liberty was on the rooftop chatting with Loa when Harry called the 'Za guard. A hundred thousand pixies answered his call and went to war. Remember that he killed a Queen of Summer with only a dozen of them (and the Senior Council would have been fully briefed on that, since it was his probation test). The efforts the assembled powers had been taking to try and counter the invisible-assassin-squids (who really need a cool name) were far more complicated and far less effective than what Harry whipped up with a minute of *silent* spellcasting and a piece of frozen pizza.

Mab told him: "An impressive display. You frightened several very confident beings tonight. I found it entertaining."

I think that's the moment when Harry lost Martha Liberty's vote.

Offline Dina

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2020, 12:10:15 AM »
Perhaps you are right, clintACK. Incidentally, I loved that quote of Mab and I really wanted to know who were those "very confident" beings. I think she may have been talking about some of her own people too, as well as Summer. But who else? The ghouls?

To be honest, they have every reason to be afraid. Harry not only is a starborn, the Winter Knight, the Warden, and a powerful wizard on his own right, he also has friends. From werewolves to River Shoulders, from KotC to the wee folk. And they don't even know that Lara needs him alive.
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2020, 01:06:45 AM »
Uh, what about Christos?

Death by Titan, Eb and LTW we’re both in surgery. The original plan was to put it to the full White Council, because it would have been 4-3 against the Merlin. But with the GateKeeper absent (at the Gate during the attack) and Eb and LTW unconscious, the Merlin was able to sway a frightened Martha Liberty, the supporter Harry knew least. I wonder if Harry was wining the Full Council vote.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2020, 01:22:59 AM »
Do we even know if Marth Liberty is alive? We last saw her at the castle. Someone later says they think no ones left at the castle and the radio's just on a loop.

Offline edf

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2020, 02:02:27 AM »
Trying to be Eb in line has some serious issues I doubt the senior council has considered or even knows.  First off, Eb may side with Harry rather than just refuse to kill him.  They already know he has some fondness and had protected him even if they don't know the full relationship.  Second, Harry just got the best of Eb.  The recent bout should show that Harry isn't just winning by luck.  Worse, since he knows that Harry was just creating a diversion, Eb can't even be certain that Harry showcased what he can do if he really wants to throw down.  Last, asking Eb to kill his apprentice sound bad. Leveling a death sentence against a senior council member for not wanting to kill sound even worse.  While Eb being the blackstaff may be a poorly kept secret it's not general knowlege.  Just how would the Merlin sell this to the general assembly without it sounding like "yea, we kill anyone that votes against us."




Offline Basil

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2020, 04:00:02 AM »
We learned from Proven Guilty that the Senior Council voting system gives the Merlin a proxy for any Senior Council member not present for the vote.

Listens to Wind and McCoy would never vote against Harry.  LtW just cut a deal with Harry to give him some answers (in a year); McCoy ... the last thing he wants is for Harry to be isolated from the Council. 

So, Merlin acts when LtW and McCoy are out.  Doubtlessly Rashid is also away -- there was a massive attack at the Gates and time between the Gates run differently. 

What this means, I suppose, is that Martha Liberty turned against Dresden as well.  She was the most on the fence about Dresden of his "supporters." 

Merlin probably knows the deal between Harry and McCoy (or strongly suspects).  Doubtlessly, he sees this as a two-fer.  He can control Dresden and McCoy with the suspended sentence. 

Offline Mira

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2020, 05:08:27 AM »
Martha Liberty was on the rooftop chatting with Loa when Harry called the 'Za guard. A hundred thousand pixies answered his call and went to war. Remember that he killed a Queen of Summer with only a dozen of them (and the Senior Council would have been fully briefed on that, since it was his probation test). The efforts the assembled powers had been taking to try and counter the invisible-assassin-squids (who really need a cool name) were far more complicated and far less effective than what Harry whipped up with a minute of *silent* spellcasting and a piece of frozen pizza.

Mab told him: "An impressive display. You frightened several very confident beings tonight. I found it entertaining."

I think that's the moment when Harry lost Martha Liberty's vote.

Yeah, well, sometimes simple is best, so is lack of prejudice and a good reward for a job well done.
Everyone underestimates the Pixies, because they are small, cute, and pig out on pizza.  Maybe they are the "Hobbits" of the series and Harry is their Gandalf?  Harry has always appreciated them, used them for important tasks and rewarded handsomely their deeds, oh, and also freed many of them from enslavement by the Raiths, thus won their loyalty. I bet the one wizard not freaked out by this was Listens to Wind.  He was there when Toot took on Shaggy to save Harry on Demonreach.

Offline maqito

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2020, 05:18:05 AM »
I think Harry getting booted out of the WC and the wardens was part of Nemesis' plan to weaken Harry.   Mai and maybe Christos have been corrupted by N.   I think Carlos was also infected.  Why else would he turn on Harry that way.  He believed in Harry and trusted him.  He knew Harry had a dangerous side from that time at Camp Kaboom.  Why would anything Harry has done since change his mind? Especially after the talk they had at the end of WK.

I'm beginning to think Harry being Starborn gives Harry some protection against the Ninfection.  What about Drakul you say? Drakul was just acting in self interest not corrupted or fighting for a cause.