Battle Ground secrets (old and new) and possible implications (Spoilers galore)

[Mira]

Marcone has the coin. He accepted it with his free will. He wants to keep it. Theoretically he can resist it but practically that will be not that likely. It will become more and more difficult and he will grow dependent on it. The coin will influence him and he will I’ll. e changed as a result. No big change at once but after some time his goals will align with the fallen and he will be their tool. This can take some time but the idea that Harry could take up Lasciel’s coin and stay in control for 500 years is not very likely. It is just a matter of time. Only throwing away the coin will reverse this process.

I think by the BAT Marcone will either reject the coin because too many of Namshiel's objectives do not match his own and goes against his tiger nature.. Or he will become the biggest baddest Denarian and there will be a show down between him and Nic.  I still wonder at him letting Harry have the Eye.  Yes, Harry's by right, but what is Marcone really up to?  Does he think he can get it back later?  Or does he underestimate Demonreach? 

[Arjan]

I think by the BAT Marcone will either reject the coin because too many of Namshiel's objectives do not match his own and goes against his tiger nature.. Or he will become the biggest baddest Denarian and there will be a show down between him and Nic.  I still wonder at him letting Harry have the Eye.  Yes, Harry's by right, but what is Marcone really up to?  Does he think he can get it back later?  Or does he underestimate Demonreach?

The problem with a weapon that big is that you need someone big to use it.  I don’t think Harry and Marcone are in the right league for that.

Mab makes no effort to get it either. I think Marcone tried to paint a big target on Harry’s back and he countered that with spreading doubt.

[Griffyn612]

The problem with a weapon that big is that you need someone big to use it.  I don’t think Harry and Marcone are in the right league for that.

Mab makes no effort to get it either. I think Marcone tried to paint a big target on Harry’s back and he countered that with spreading doubt.

Well, I don't know.  The Eye uses dark energy to fuel it.  Harry has an island overflowing with dark energy.  He's seen the enchantments used by Namshiel to tap into the ley line energy.  He's familiar with making foci to shoot energy. 

It wouldn't be good for field use, but I could see him rebuilding the lighthouse, putting a turret on top with a BFG (Balor Foci Gun), and using it to mow down the hordes of Outsiders that will inevitably attack Demonreach for a third time.

[Arjan]

Well, I don't know.  The Eye uses dark energy to fuel it.  Harry has an island overflowing with dark energy.  He's seen the enchantments used by Namshiel to tap into the ley line energy.  He's familiar with making foci to shoot energy. 

It wouldn't be good for field use, but I could see him rebuilding the lighthouse, putting a turret on top with a BFG (Balor Foci Gun), and using it to mow down the hordes of Outsiders that will inevitably attack Demonreach for a third time.

The gatekeeper warned him against using the dark energy of the island but also said it might be possible if he gets older. I do think though that you have to remove an eye to use it. I do not expect any shortcut.

It probably needs a lot of hate as well. There are implications for using it.

[Cymbaline]

Harry needs to be very, very, very careful with the knowledge about Marcone around Mab.  The Sidhe do not give out information without a price, and for him to simply give out such valuable information could have massive unintended consequences.  Not only the information itself, even if she knows, just the knowledge that he also knows could be dangerous.

[Griffyn612]

Harry needs to be very, very, very careful with the knowledge about Marcone around Mab.  The Sidhe do not give out information without a price, and for him to simply give out such valuable information could have massive unintended consequences.  Not only the information itself, even if she knows, just the knowledge that he also knows could be dangerous.

I think Harry calling Marcone "sir" at the end, and Mab's reaction, was either her finding out that Harry found out, or her realizing the meaning. 

[Griffyn612]

The gatekeeper warned him against using the dark energy of the island but also said it might be possible if he gets older. I do think though that you have to remove an eye to use it. I do not expect any shortcut.

It probably needs a lot of hate as well. There are implications for using it.

Oh he definitely needs to be careful.  But having that power channel through a dark foci rather than himself would have to make a huge difference.

As for losing an eye to use it, maybe.  My first thought, if that's the case, would be to have Alfred use it. But I'm not sure how ready Harry is to go changing Alfred's programming.

I'm not sure we've met an ally yet that's big enough, metaphysically, that can wield it.  Maybe Vadderung, but I too think he'll be dead by the time they want to use it.

It probably requires rate and hate top wield it, and I'm not sure who fits that bill. 

Unless we get gross, and Harry can literally release parts of inmates, and he puts Ethniu's head in a crystal jar whenever he needs to pop the eye in and use it.  But that seems unlikely for numerous reasons.

Unless he meets a new ally in the wrestling book that's an immortal the he trusts with it, he might just have to find another way to use it.

[Mira]

The problem with a weapon that big is that you need someone big to use it.  I don’t think Harry and Marcone are in the right league for that.

Mab makes no effort to get it either. I think Marcone tried to paint a big target on Harry’s back and he countered that with spreading doubt.

I think you are wrong there, I think all you need is the will to be able to use it.  Nobody on the White Council is physically all that big, yet they wanted the Eye.  If need be during the BAT Harry might turn it over to Rivershoulders to shoot, or Alfred is large enough to use it if it is needed to keep the island secure.  I think Harry could use it with some modifications.

[Arjan]

I think you are wrong there, I think all you need is the will to be able to use it.  Nobody on the White Council is physically all that big, yet they wanted the Eye.  If need be during the BAT Harry might turn it over to Rivershoulders to shoot, or Alfred is large enough to use it if it is needed to keep the island secure.  I think Harry could use it with some modifications.

Not physically. Metaphysically, spiritual mass.

And I don't think it is safe to use an item that big that is made of pure hate. It will make you hate. It is just not safe to use even if you can use it.

[Bad Alias]

Is the Archive secretly affiliated with [the Librarians].

I think I remember a WoJ to that effect. Of course, we'd never see that in one of the novels.

[Griffyn612]

I think I remember a WoJ to that effect. Of course, we'd never see that in one of the novels.

Depends on how much we'll see of them. If Harry needs to check their catalog for something and travels to D.C., and finds Ivy there, it might be interesting.  Especially if he was trying to prevent her from finding out what he was trying to find out.  Just to make it extra complicated for Harry.

[Bad Alias]

I think it was set it up like everything the Archive does. Untraceable to her.

[Mira]

The problem with a weapon that big is that you need someone big to use it.  I don’t think Harry and Marcone are in the right league for that.

Mab makes no effort to get it either. I think Marcone tried to paint a big target on Harry’s back and he countered that with spreading doubt.

Marcone flat out asks Harry if he was going to use the Eye against the Titan.  This was just before he shows him that he has another little toy, The Spear of Destiny... But I digress,

Harry's answer is a bit ambiguous;  page324 Battle Ground

"Maybe I could," I panted.  "If I had a lifetime to study it.  But probably not.  Something like that isn't meant for mortals."

On one hand he says, no, not meant for mortals... On the other he says if he had a lifetime to study it, he might be able to.  Then there is the current speculation that Harry won't always be mortal.. So we could see the Eye come into play in the final BAT.

[KurtinStGeorge]

Harry never took the coin, he had the shadow and one of the reasons he could resist that temptation is that he could change the shadow as well.
The other reason was that he ultimately did not want the coin.

Marcone has the coin. He accepted it with his free will. He wants to keep it. Theoretically he can resist it but practically that will be not that likely. It will become more and more difficult and he will grow dependent on it. The coin will influence him and he will I’ll. e changed as a result. No big change at once but after some time his goals will align with the fallen and he will be their tool. This can take some time but the idea that Harry could take up Lasciel’s coin and stay in control for 500 years is not very likely. It is just a matter of time. Only throwing away the coin will reverse this process.



And as far the KotC going after him. Until Marcone does something to make them take notice, like use the coin to get his way in mundane situations, I think the Knights don't have a reason to interfere.

They need a reason for that. They did not go after Harry when he had the coin.

I agree that Marcone is going down a very dark path.  I'm not saying that Marcone couldn't be redeemed in the end; but that doesn't seem very likely to me.  In the immediate future Thorned Namshiel may pretend he doesn't have a problem sitting in Marcone's passenger seat, but fallen angel will eventually start to influence Marcone.  It's what they do.

When I said that Harry should tell Butters and Sanya about Marcone's new playmate, I didn't mean to suggest that the KotC's should immediately go after Marcone, just that they should be made aware of the situation.  Butters and Sanya's boss will tell them when it's time to face off against the newest Denarian.

[Mira]

I agree that Marcone is going down a very dark path.  I'm not saying that Marcone couldn't be redeemed in the end; but that doesn't seem very likely to me.  In the immediate future Thorned Namshiel may pretend he doesn't have a problem sitting in Marcone's passenger seat, but fallen angel will eventually start to influence Marcone.  It's what they do.

When I said that Harry should tell Butters and Sanya about Marcone's new playmate, I didn't mean to suggest that the KotC's should immediately go after Marcone, just that they should be made aware of the situation.  Butters and Sanya's boss will tell them when it's time to face off against the newest Denarian.

Oh I think they already know, or have been told by Mr Sunshine.. Timing is everything, right now might not be the time, plus remember they are all about redemption, not killing hosts.  I'd love to see a scene where Sir Waldo logically and genitally talks Marcone into giving up his coin..