Butters *battle grounds*

[Dina]

Yes, yes, but we got that idea the first time, we don't need it repeated again and again 

[Arjan]

Yes, yes, but we got that idea the first time, we don't need it repeated again and again 

What it shows is that while Harry accepted it Jim is afraid some new readers don't 

[StrayDog]

I think there are many times that Butcher repeats things, specially descriptions, and that has been much worse in PT/BG. I commented in another thread that I was really tired of Harry describing how a soulgaze works and the thing about eyes being the windows of the soul. But that was not the only thing. In PT Lara got a full description twice in not so many chapters, and in BG a couple of things are mentioned again. And I think Butters is one of those things. You may be right that is a hint of something, but I've felt is more about bad editing.

Is JB getting out in the weeds in his own series? Experiencing regular bouts of writer's block? This is one of the early signs that the writer is reaching for content. Next comes creating OP weapons, protagonists, and antagonists. Followed up by death being meaningless, ie. bringing dead characters and/or broken items back at the expense of the story. All of this descends into alternate realities and/or alternate timelines. PT was acceptable enough to be entertaining but BG was almost too hard to complete.

[Arjan]

It is a problem many writers of big series have. Some people start with the latest book and not with first. Jim wants to keep them on board too.

[Dina]

Is JB getting out in the weeds in his own series? Experiencing regular bouts of writer's block? This is one of the early signs that the writer is reaching for content. Next comes creating OP weapons, protagonists, and antagonists. Followed up by death being meaningless, ie. bringing dead characters and/or broken items back at the expense of the story. All of this descends into alternate realities and/or alternate timelines. PT was acceptable enough to be entertaining but BG was almost too hard to complete.

Oh, I completely disagree. First, I think it was just a problem of writing a book, spiting it in two, rewriting for make each book more independent. It lost some of the organic sense most JB books have. Second, I found PT quite messy and somehow difficult to read, while I enjoyed BG (except for the constant fear of losing characters. Something like watching GoT knowing that some character you love could die every minute. So I am looking forward for a rereading. I think I will have more fun and enjoy it even better)

[Conspiracy Theorist]

It is a problem many writers of big series have. Some people start with the latest book and not with first. Jim wants to keep them on board too.

Tough, read Storm Front instead.

[StrayDog]

@Dina
Given that you enjoyed BG and look forward to rereading it and I found parts so mind-numbingly repetitive that I skipped them the first time around. Still have only been able to go to the chapters that have something in them. Pretty sure you will start each reply to my posts with "Oh, I completely disagree ..." This has actually made participating in this forum an order of magnitude more interesting than parts of BG. On an aside, don't start ppl on GoT they have some visceral responses.

@Conspiracy Theorist
LOL classic!

[Arjan]

Tough, read Storm Front instead.

I started with small favor because that was the book available in the bookstore when I bought it after reading a few chapters. They did not have the older books, only the one that was just in paperback.

I read the rest out of order until turn coat.

[Dina]

LOL StrayDog.

It is very rare for me to begin a saga "in the middle". I am sure that if I had born later I would have began SW with Ep1. Similarly, I began the Asimov Robots saga with Foundation. I've read the prequels much later than the original trilogy.

[Mira]

What it shows is that Harry is accepting the changed status of Butters. Butters is a big hitter in his own right now, not the cowering, terrified hanger on to Harry from Dead Beat. That he is every bit the equal to Michael, Shiro, Sanya or Murphy as a Knight.

Yes, and Harry is happy for him.  I disagree with how you describe Butters in Dead Beat, that is how Thomas described Butters in Dead Beat, thankfully Harry didn't agree with him.  Let's see, this cowering,terrified hanger on, with the help of Mouse, saved Harry from being slowly killed by Cassius.  That is when I wrote a thread that Butters would be a Holy Knight some day, I was right.  This little cowering, terrified hanger on, was scared out of his wits, true, but he did everything he could with in his capacity to aid Harry.  This little cowering, terrified hanger on, was able to take instruction draw a circle, stand in it, and drum away on his polka machine to keep Sue going while all manner of monsters and hell was going on around him..  Butters never was a coward, scared out of his skin, yes, terrified, yes, but overcame it to aid Harry when the chips were down.  I call that a very brave man.

[Mira]

Oh, I completely disagree. First, I think it was just a problem of writing a book, spiting it in two, rewriting for make each book more independent. It lost some of the organic sense most JB books have. Second, I found PT quite messy and somehow difficult to read, while I enjoyed BG (except for the constant fear of losing characters. Something like watching GoT knowing that some character you love could die every minute. So I am looking forward for a rereading. I think I will have more fun and enjoy it even better)

I agree, I like Battle Ground, however I found that Peace Talks was a bit of a bore.  Yes, stuff happened in it that were important later in Battle Ground, but it never seemed to quite come together.  Maybe because so much of it was invested in the rescue of Thomas?

[Dina]

Yes, Mira. Anyway I think my main problem with PT were the first chapters, that seemed disjointed. Like, "we are going to introduce all the characters and the problem", but not organically throwing it all together without order.
And I agree with your other post. Butters is very brave because he overcomes his fear to do what is right.

[Telynn]

The problem, in my opinion, with PT is it is only half a book.  Both books improve upon viewing them as a whole.  And as others have stated, cut out some stuff that might not be important and it could have easily been one book.

[Mira]

The problem, in my opinion, with PT is it is only half a book.  Both books improve upon viewing them as a whole.  And as others have stated, cut out some stuff that might not be important and it could have easily been one book.

It is better on the second read, I think it tried to go in too many directions at once, so we never got Harry searching for answers.  That is what was disappointing, no search for answers and no answers.

[StrayDog]

I agree, I like Battle Ground, however I found that Peace Talks was a bit of a bore.  Yes, stuff happened in it that were important later in Battle Ground, but it never seemed to quite come together.  Maybe because so much of it was invested in the rescue of Thomas?

LOL seems like my reply to Dina easily applies here as well. All adds to the spice of life