Murphy (BG spoilers) (also some thoughts on the book overall)

[Arjan]

There was, and apparently Uriel carries a little more weight, because Mab was forced to go along with the lesson he wanted to teach.  As she pointed out, if it went wrong, Harry would have gone all dead and she would have lost her Knight.

Because Uriel must have had some claim on Murphy too and Vadderung got her. There is a recent woj about that kind of situation which says that Vadderung sometimes negotiates for people he needs and that they wake up rather surprised in walhalla.

I imagine Uriel and Vadderung had lunch and they talked about it and Uriel being Uriel made it dependent on Murphy’s choice. Maybe a similar deal was made with Mab. That thing with the doors was suspicious.

[magnuskn]

You need a really apocalyptic situation for that 

Do we? I mean, again, fiction. We are putting a lot of weight on a short paragraph of words said by Sigrun Gard, without any real contextual explanations, who is an employee of one Mr. Kringle. She's a pretty straight person, but I'm pretty sure that if she had gotten instructions by her boss, she might have not been 100% truthful.

Not even to mention that there are a ton of work-arounds which could be done. Oh, she comes back as a Valkyrie, which is different from being an Einherjar, golly gee wiz. Oh, her being so catholic and being a former Knight of the Cross makes her a special case. It's easy, it just depends if Jim wants her back or not.

[Brigand]

Lurking for some time, joined up just to share this thought.

Doesn't Murphy's slightly odd death, a stray bullet fired by a chump with no trigger discipline, sound like just the thing a time travelling wizard could change easily and unobtrusively???

[Arjan]

Lurking for some time, joined up just to share this thought.

Doesn't Murphy's slightly odd death, a stray bullet fired by a chump with no trigger discipline, sound like just the thing a time travelling wizard could change easily and unobtrusively???

It just shows how dangerous crazy people with guns are.

[Mira]

It just shows how dangerous crazy people with guns are.

Amen.

[TrueMonk]

I have always thought that the series would end with the apocalypse and it would seam strange to collect einherjargen to be ready for it and not use them all when it comes. If all the einherjargen are coming out to fight or would be odd if Harry and Murph did not meet. I think it fair not to state ...unless the apocalypse comes as an exception to every statement :-D

And I would not find someone coming back to fight in the apocalypse making death meaningless in The Dresdenverse

[StrayDog]

Do we? I mean, again, fiction. We are putting a lot of weight on a short paragraph of words said by Sigrun Gard, without any real contextual explanations, who is an employee of one Mr. Kringle. She's a pretty straight person, but I'm pretty sure that if she had gotten instructions by her boss, she might have not been 100% truthful.

Not even to mention that there are a ton of work-arounds which could be done. Oh, she comes back as a Valkyrie, which is different from being an Einherjar, golly gee wiz. Oh, her being so catholic and being a former Knight of the Cross makes her a special case. It's easy, it just depends if Jim wants her back or not.

Absolutely YES, all of it!!! I will add, when death isn't final the story starts to suffer because there is no pain. "Just wait a book or two and she'll be back" robs us all of an emotional end to an excellent character.

[Mira]

Absolutely YES, all of it!!! I will add, when death isn't final the story starts to suffer because there is no pain. "Just wait a book or two and she'll be back" robs us all of an emotional end to an excellent character.

Yes, and bringing her back somehow cheapens the character.  Tis a pet peeve of mine in books, movies, and television shows, the writers do a really outstanding job making an end for the character.  Not always death either, just a good end.. But some idiot decides that was such a poetic end, that we need to make a sequel, bring him or her back to somehow enhance the other characters.. It usually doesn't  work, I'm thinking of a character they brought back from the dead, Tasha Yar, then killed her off again poetically in an alternate universe "Yesterday's Enterprise."  Then decided that because that was such a success, lets bring her back as her half Romunlan daughter because Tasha Yar really did survive the battle that no one in the current timeline even knows happened, and the Tasha Yar of the current timeline died a needless death years before in a run in with an oily alien...

[StrayDog]

I have always thought that the series would end with the apocalypse and it would seam strange to collect einherjargen to be ready for it and not use them all when it comes. If all the einherjargen are coming out to fight or would be odd if Harry and Murph did not meet. I think it fair not to state ...unless the apocalypse comes as an exception to every statement :-D

And I would not find someone coming back to fight in the apocalypse making death meaningless in The Dresdenverse

Bringing an excellent fighter back for the purpose of the apocalypse would probably be fine given that Murph didn't interact with anyone, was seen from a distance but not able to be reached, then disappeared at the end of the battle. Leave the tension in the air,  twist the heart some, make the reader scream NNNOOOOOOOO

[Mira]

Bringing an excellent fighter back for the purpose of the apocalypse would probably be fine given that Murph didn't interact with anyone, was seen from a distance but not able to be reached, then disappeared at the end of the battle. Leave the tension in the air,  twist the heart some, make the reader scream NNNOOOOOOOO

Yeah, real heartbreak for Harry, he comes back to Mac's place, exhausted, wounded in body and mind looking forward to Murphy's arms around him... She's not there, when things got hairy it was impossible to hold her.  She was last seen limping down the street towards the Titan with a rocket launcher on her back...  Harry rushes back to the area of the Battle of The Bean, and finds her, covered in blood next to a couple of would be tough kids in shock.. They tell Harry how she died protecting them.

[Snark Knight]

I imagine Uriel and Vadderung had lunch and they talked about it and Uriel being Uriel made it dependent on Murphy’s choice. Maybe a similar deal was made with Mab. That thing with the doors was suspicious.

That makes sense. Given a choice between off the field for good or a chance to come back and fight the good fight in Ragnarok, it's a no-brainer. She's got the same never quit attitude as Harry.

Plus, Harry ate the donut Vadderung offered him in Changes, with consideration about the meaning of accepting food offered by Odin in his 'hall'. He's probably destined for the same afterlife when his time comes.

[magnuskn]

Yes, and bringing her back somehow cheapens the character.  Tis a pet peeve of mine in books, movies, and television shows, the writers do a really outstanding job making an end for the character.  Not always death either, just a good end.. But some idiot decides that was such a poetic end, that we need to make a sequel, bring him or her back to somehow enhance the other characters.. It usually doesn't  work, I'm thinking of a character they brought back from the dead, Tasha Yar, then killed her off again poetically in an alternate universe "Yesterday's Enterprise."  Then decided that because that was such a success, lets bring her back as her half Romunlan daughter because Tasha Yar really did survive the battle that no one in the current timeline even knows happened, and the Tasha Yar of the current timeline died a needless death years before in a run in with an oily alien...

Quite the contrary with me. I think killing off a character robs him of all future potential. The better solution is to not kill them off in the first place, but I'd rather have them back then be gone forever. It doesn't always work out in the end, true, but often it does. I'm a comics guy, so I am pretty inured to the argument that "dead means dead", anyway.

Also, I personally still think Jim is not the guy to kill off main characters in the way Murphy did go. There is too much foreshadowing with her training with the Einherjar and the way she interacted with Freydis and just the fact that she got taken away to Valhalla to let her just go. If she was meant to be out of the series, her going to the Catholic afterlife would have been the thing to do.

[Doughnut Despot]

Gotta say, I'm looking forward to the Tiniest Valkyrie series Jim ought to be giving us.

[bigdangmoose]

Gotta say, I'm looking forward to the Tiniest Valkyrie series Jim ought to be giving us.

Problem with that is she's not a Valkyrie, she's Einherjar. There is a difference

[Mira]

Problem with that is she's not a Valkyrie, she's Einherjar. There is a difference

She never could be because the Valkyrie are Odin's daughters, and she isn't.  I think Jim decided to make her a Einherjar as opposed to going to what comes next, does give some of her fans the outside hope that she will return, though I doubt that as long as Harry lives she will leave his memory.  Then again if she went the other route, she could appear as a ghost from time to time.