Murphy (BG spoilers) (also some thoughts on the book overall)

[magnuskn]

So, yeah. Down goes Murphy. I am less than happy, although it was predicted, even by myself. At least she brought down a giant before having to go. I would have liked her to stay at least another book, to give Harry at least a full year of a blissful relationship.

She has not come back as a Valkyrie (yet...), but she was taken to Valhalla to be an Einherjarn (despite being catholic and noticeably so in this book). So, that point of objection to her not coming back as a supernatural being is pretty much kaputt.

I personally don't believe that she is really out of the series yet, since Jim doesn't like to discard characters that easily. IMHO, she'll be back, maybe next book, maybe in a few, as an "exception to the rule" (because fictional rules are made to be broken) and either as a straight Valkyrie or as an Einherjarn.

Otherwise than Murphy dying, the book was overall really good and enjoyable and felt much more as a "full book" than Peace Talks did. I think the only real points of objection I have are that Harry didn't have a private talk with Ivy (he can be forgiven, due to having his hands full with a demi-god, but still, man... you haven't really talked to her for years. At least introduce her to Maggy) and that we didn't get a scene of Langtry talking with Harry and having to deal with Harry being the Winter Knight, the Warden of Demonreach, etc.. The White Council is a bunch of dumbasses and Harry really probably is better off without them. I'm very much looking forward to what comes next.

[huangjimmy108]

I doubt Murphy would come back anytime soon. Fictional rules indeed are made to be broken and JB is not known to just scrap a Character like Murphy so easily, but I doubt JB would break a new establish fictional rule so quickly either. So I suspect if Murphy is goint to come back, it requires some time, which is why I mentioned before that if the DF series is long enough or if there is a spin off which take place in future timeline or if there is a time skip in the series, Murphy could come back again.

Another possibility, Harry could meet Murphy in the NN. Murphy can't come back to the mortal world, but there is so many place out there in the NN and there is also other universes. Murphy can't come back here, but she could go somewhere else and Harry could go to that place as well.

[forumghost]

Yeah, I don't think Jim would have had Gard specifically say "No, can't be done," if Murphy was coming back as a mainstay. She'll probably make an appearance in MM to torment Harry a bit though, so that should be neat.

Not sure what would be worse for Harry though- finding out that MM!Murphy's life is actually better because she's not so associated with him, or having it be worse because the world's going to crap and she's gone all "hard woman making hard decisions while hard" à la Ghost Story Murph.

[Mira]

   Actually I am a bit sorry she was taken to Valhalla, not that she doesn't deserve to go there, but I'd rather she went to work with her father and Uriel.  She had issues with her father, which she laments in Peace Talks and never got to resolve because he took his own life before they were able to.  Then
perhaps Harry could get word via Uriel, as much as he will say anyway, that she is happy doing what she is doing, giving Harry some peace.

No, I don't think Murphy is coming back.  Gard was very clear on that, as in "even the Allfather" cannot over rule that.

[Arjan]

You are far too pessimistic. Harry won't stay mortal and after half a decade or so all mortals who knew her are either dead or immortal. That includes Eb and Ramirez.

So Harry visits Odin and they make a deal after the Apocalypse and the whole story ends with a huge living together happy ever after. For a very long time. 

[Griffyn612]

Or the rules change for the Apocalypse, and all cards are on the table, including quarantined einherjarn.  Then she's back for the BAT, riding in top save the day on a winged motorcycle or something.

[magnuskn]

I doubt Murphy would come back anytime soon. Fictional rules indeed are made to be broken and JB is not known to just scrap a Character like Murphy so easily, but I doubt JB would break a new establish fictional rule so quickly either. So I suspect if Murphy is goint to come back, it requires some time, which is why I mentioned before that if the DF series is long enough or if there is a spin off which take place in future timeline or if there is a time skip in the series, Murphy could come back again.

Another possibility, Harry could meet Murphy in the NN. Murphy can't come back to the mortal world, but there is so many place out there in the NN and there is also other universes. Murphy can't come back here, but she could go somewhere else and Harry could go to that place as well.

Yeah, Harry going to Valhalla to meet Murphy would seem to be a thing he'd do. I think it depends if Jim wants to continue to Murphy / Harry relationship. Methinks he probably wants to maximise Harry's suffering for entertainment purposes, so if there is a continuance by Harry and Murphy being able to meet somehow, it will be a very inconvenient way for them both.

But I think it is pretty clear that if he had wanted her gone, she would have gone to the catholic afterlife, not Odin's realm.

Actually I am a bit sorry she was taken to Valhalla, not that she doesn't deserve to go there, but I'd rather she went to work with her father and Uriel.  She had issues with her father, which she laments in Peace Talks and never got to resolve because he took his own life before they were able to.  Then perhaps Harry could get word via Uriel, as much as he will say anyway, that she is happy doing what she is doing, giving Harry some peace.

Murphy's dad was in the "in-between" because he couldn't move on. I would think Murphy's first mission there would be to make her dad go on into the true afterlife, afterwards she'd be gone as well.

No, I don't think Murphy is coming back.  Gard was very clear on that, as in "even the Allfather" cannot over rule that.

Meh. I think that was specifically mentioned to be a rule that will be broken.

Or the rules change for the Apocalypse, and all cards are on the table, including quarantined einherjarn.  Then she's back for the BAT, riding in top save the day on a winged motorcycle or something.

I think I'd prefer a winged horse in classical fashion, but otherwise this sounds pretty plausible, too.

[Griffyn612]

I think I'd prefer a winged horse in classical fashion, but otherwise this sounds pretty plausible, too.

Okay, fine. But the horse has to be named Harley.

[BrainFireBob]

Svangal (or was it Svangr?)

Anywhere, let her ride the Jotun and refer to it as "Backup"

[Narsham]

Or the rules change for the Apocalypse, and all cards are on the table, including quarantined einherjarn.  Then she's back for the BAT, riding in top save the day on a winged motorcycle or something.

No rules change: the einherjarn are specifically gathered for Ragnarok, so Murphy has to come off the bench when that happens.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Harry really needs to arrange conjugal visits in Valhalla, which will be in the NeverNever, the problem is though that the connecting point from the mortal world is probably one of the Great War war cemeteries or perhaps Arlington. If he can get into Hades realm, Harry can get into Valhalla.

But long distance relationships are hell, after all. It would be worthwhile just to see Karrin have a long and heated diatribe about the food and drink “Nothing but red meat and mead, I would kill for a nice chicken salad and a nice bottle of Chardonnay”, the company “Nothing but big, farting, hairy men, honestly if it wasn’t for Hendricks I wouldn’t be able to have a decent conversation with anyone” The company’s attitudes “They all believe a woman’s place is in the home, and my knee is sore from constantly reminding them it isn’t” on reassignment “I asked whether I could be a Valkyrie, but apparently the only steed available in my size is a goofy pink winged pony, with I swear a cutie mark”, on the boss “he asked whether I would call him daddy, so I called him a son of a bitch, and he just laughed.” On Harry’s impending nuptials “well that’s Lara totally screwed, pity, I was just starting to like her.” On Marcone picking up a coin “so Namshiel is MORE evil now?”

Regarding the Great War, I wonder if in the Dresdenverse the Angels Of Mons legends were in fact Gard and her sisters, it would make sense.

[Mira]

Harry really needs to arrange conjugal visits in Valhalla, which will be in the NeverNever, the problem is though that the connecting point from the mortal world is probably one of the Great War war cemeteries or perhaps Arlington. If he can get into Hades realm, Harry can get into Valhalla.

I don't think that will be so easy, Valhalla is the hall for the dead warriors, I don't think the living are allowed there.  Where as though Hades is the realm of the dead there is precedent for mortals, okay, a few heroes, visiting his Halls and returning successfully.

[Arjan]

Harry really needs to arrange conjugal visits in Valhalla, which will be in the NeverNever, the problem is though that the connecting point from the mortal world is probably one of the Great War war cemeteries or perhaps Arlington. If he can get into Hades realm, Harry can get into Valhalla.

But long distance relationships are hell, after all. It would be worthwhile just to see Karrin have a long and heated diatribe about the food and drink “Nothing but red meat and mead, I would kill for a nice chicken salad and a nice bottle of Chardonnay”, the company “Nothing but big, farting, hairy men, honestly if it wasn’t for Hendricks I wouldn’t be able to have a decent conversation with anyone” The company’s attitudes “They all believe a woman’s place is in the home, and my knee is sore from constantly reminding them it isn’t” on reassignment “I asked whether I could be a Valkyrie, but apparently the only steed available in my size is a goofy pink winged pony, with I swear a cutie mark”, on the boss “he asked whether I would call him daddy, so I called him a son of a bitch, and he just laughed.” On Harry’s impending nuptials “well that’s Lara totally screwed, pity, I was just starting to like her.” On Marcone picking up a coin “so Namshiel is MORE evil now?”

Regarding the Great War, I wonder if in the Dresdenverse the Angels Of Mons legends were in fact Gard and her sisters, it would make sense.

She liked those men and she trained with those men, she knows several of them personally. And I think that was exactly the reason she ended up in Valhalla, the attitude rubbed off.
And they respected her. It will be fine.
And you don't need a steed your size, a bigger one will do just fine. It might even better.

I don't think that will be so easy, Valhalla is the hall for the dead warriors, I don't think the living are allowed there.  Where as though Hades is the realm of the dead there is precedent for mortals, okay, a few heroes, visiting his Halls and returning successfully.

Harry won't stay mortal for long.

[Mr. Death]

I'll tell you, I figured what was going to happen to Murphy after I remembered her callsign this book was "Valkyrie."

(Admittedly, part of me was also hoping she'd gotten Molly to make her a doppelganger spell of her own after seeing Harry's, but oh well.)

Anyway, I'm reminded of Conan the Barbarian -- specifically, Conan's love interest, and her vow to him, "All the gods, they cannot sever us. If I were dead and you were still fighting for life, I'd come back from the darkness. Back from the pit of hell to fight at your side."

And with the amount that Butcher's put into Norse mythology, and the term "Empty Night," the Big Apocalyptic Trilogy is probably going to be Ragnarok.

The big battle that all the Einherjaren are gearing up for.

So now I'm going to hold my breath for Harry to be down in the dirt during the BAT, about to be struck down, then a tiny, but fierce, warrior steps in, clobbers whoever Harry's fighting, and smirks to him, "Do you want to live forever?"

[Griffyn612]

Harry won't stay mortal for long.

After Mab's comment in BG about mortality, I'd bet money he stays as mortal as any wizard.