Battle Ground spoilers: Harry’s pairing. What do you think?

[Mira]

That is probably too big, you must be careful with these things. Harry was very smart to only ask for a doughnut.

Yeah, but based on what he said to Eb in Peace Talks, he now ask for two donuts..

[Griffyn612]

Well, in a way, Butters removed something from Mab that restrained her and would have led to her death. Butters trying to claim that removing the Lady mantle from Molly might be equal, in the loosest of terms.

But getting both seems highly unlikely.  And I doubt he'll try. No doubt something else will come up.  Like Butters asking Harry be freed from something he didn't want to be restrained by against his will, a.k.a. the engagement.

[Bad Alias]

I think we can all agree that out of Luccio, Lara, Mab and Molly, Molly is by far the one that comes closest to Harrys age and maturity level. Even if we "just" pretended that the other three were 100 years old.

I'm not sure about Mab and Lara's maturity levels, but otherwise totally. I still irrationally ship Elaine.

Yes. Ish.

Papa Raith paints portraits of the mothers of his children. The oldest portrait is from, I think, the 16th century.

(Kind of a retread of what Rigil Kent said, but...) Without looking back, I don't remember when the oldest portrait is from, but I do recall that I got the impression that there were more paintings than children. If that's the case, then Lara is the oldest living Raith child. I don't know if we have anything close to an accurate count on the children or the paintings.

Oh good, but does he have any clue as to when he will write the next book?

After he finishes the Olympian Affair.

[KurtinStGeorge]

(Kind of a retread of what Rigil Kent said, but...) Without looking back, I don't remember when the oldest portrait is from, but I do recall that I got the impression that there were more paintings than children. If that's the case, then Lara is the oldest living Raith child. I don't know if we have anything close to an accurate count on the children or the paintings.

In Blood Rites Lara told Thomas that a number of her brothers and sisters had plotted against Lord Raith and they had all died.  So, it's quite possible that Lara wasn't the oldest child or even the oldest daughter, just the oldest surviving child.

[Mira]

In Blood Rites Lara told Thomas that a number of her brothers and sisters had plotted against Lord Raith and they had all died.  So, it's quite possible that Lara wasn't the oldest child or even the oldest daughter, just the oldest surviving child.

Very possible, because I seem to remember that Lord Raith routinely killed off his sons one way or another to prevent the rise of a rival.  The only reason Thomas had survived is he considered him too weak to be a threat, he was also looking for a chance to kill him when it would aid in breaking Margaret's death curse.  It would make sense, that Lara, who inherited her father's brains and his ruthlessness when she chooses to use it, saw her sisters as competition and killed them off or saw to it that they met with accidents.

[Avernite]

Very possible, because I seem to remember that Lord Raith routinely killed off his sons one way or another to prevent the rise of a rival.  The only reason Thomas had survived is he considered him too weak to be a threat, he was also looking for a chance to kill him when it would aid in breaking Margaret's death curse.  It would make sense, that Lara, who inherited her father's brains and his ruthlessness when she chooses to use it, saw her sisters as competition and killed them off or saw to it that they met with accidents.

Or, even better - White Night style, pushed them to plot against daddy.

[Mira]

Or, even better - White Night style, pushed them to plot against daddy.

While she stood back and watched as kind of a "Daddy's girl."  

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Has anyone considered that the marriage is a way to redeem the White Court? Mab has a long-term plan for them, and the marriage is part of it.

We need to know more about the origin of the White Court, it must tie into the predecessor beings of the Queens of Faerie.

Besides Lara has to comply with this old charm on her wedding day, and wear:-

Something old,
Something new,
Something borrowed,
Something blue.

There is likely plenty old she can wear, Etruscan? Something new jewellery of some kind as a gift. Something borrowed,  most likely from Mab, (and that is going to bite her) something blue? Carlos Testicles?

[Bad Alias]

It would make sense, that Lara, who inherited her father's brains and his ruthlessness when she chooses to use it, saw her sisters as competition and killed them off or saw to it that they met with accidents.

I don't think so. She values family. Lord Raith didn't.

Has anyone considered that the marriage is a way to redeem the White Court? Mab has a long-term plan for them, and the marriage is part of it.

Why would Mab need them to be redeemed? She's fine with monsters. She probably prefers them.

[Mira]

I don't think so. She values family. Lord Raith didn't.

  She may value family once her rivals are dead.  She may value those younger than herself because she doesn't see them as a threat.  Thomas isn't interested in power, and Inari wasn't interested in being a vamp, and isn't one if it was true love and she managed to burn out her Hunger Demon before it got started. 

[KurtinStGeorge]

Has anyone considered that the marriage is a way to redeem the White Court? Mab has a long-term plan for them, and the marriage is part of it.

We need to know more about the origin of the White Court, it must tie into the predecessor beings of the Queens of Faerie.

Besides Lara has to comply with this old charm on her wedding day, and wear:-

Something old,
Something new,
Something borrowed,
Something blue.

There is likely plenty old she can wear, Etruscan? Something new jewellery of some kind as a gift. Something borrowed,  most likely from Mab, (and that is going to bite her) something blue? Carlos Testicles?

I don't know about redeeming the entire White Court.  However, the last time I reread White Night; specifically Harry's final conversation with Lash, and even more specifically, when Harry had an epiphany that the Black Court of vampires has a connection with the Outsiders, instead of wondering what that connection might be, I started thinking about the other vampire courts. 

The Red King was the progenitor of the Red Court, but what created him?  Seeing as the Red Court is most likely totally dead and gone we may never find out or perhaps it will get mentioned in passing.  More important and I think more interesting is the creation of the White Court.  Uriel told Harry at the end of Ghost Story that the road of a White Court vampire was a difficult one.  Something about being mortal but having the difficulties of immortality.  Lately, I have been thinking that Uriel was hinting at something.  Perhaps the creation of the White Court wasn't a cosmic accident.  Perhaps they were created with a purpose in mind.  A purpose so important that it was worth gifting them with the monstrous tendencies their demon gives them.  I think they were meant to keep the other vampire courts in check, back when mortals had only a very limited ability to do this themselves.  So it might be possible that Lara could be redeemed, though I'm not betting on that happening.

There is one other factor that could possibly change Lara Raith or any White Court vampire, though not necessarily for the better.  What I'm thinking about could go either way.  Harry has a proven ability to change the nature of some supernatural creatures by giving them names, or more accurately, by renaming them.  So far, Harry has referred to Lara as Pheromone Lass in one book and as an apex sexual predator in Peace Talks.  Neither of these names has stuck as a nickname.  It seems that Harry will be spending a lot more time with Lara, which increases the chance he will come up with a nickname for her.  If Lara starts to respond to that name you will know it is having an effect. 

[Mira]

I don't know about redeeming the entire White Court.  However, the last time I reread White Night; specifically Harry's final conversation with Lash, and even more specifically, when Harry had an epiphany that the Black Court of vampires has a connection with the Outsiders, instead of wondering what that connection might be, I started thinking about the other vampire courts.

  Didn't that go the same for the White Court?  Vittorio was possessed, Justine, though vanilla mortal but has close contact with the White Court, she is possessed.  Something very empty nightish possesses Lord Raith and keeps him from being killed by magic, but though the hints scream Nemesis/Outsider, Jim hasn't told us yet.

[Bad Alias]

She may value family once her rivals are dead.

She only stood up to Lord Raith because he didn't value family. If you think Lara doesn't value family, I'd suggest rereading Ch. 41 of BR starting with the line where Harry says "He was my blood."

Didn't that go the same for the White Court?  Vittorio was possessed, Justine, though vanilla mortal but has close contact with the White Court, she is possessed.  Something very empty nightish possesses Lord Raith and keeps him from being killed by magic, but though the hints scream Nemesis/Outsider, Jim hasn't told us yet.

That's just members of the White Court. We can be fairly certain that the whole White Court isn't subject to Outsiders as there have been repeated Outsider infiltrations and power plays there.

It's the entirety of the Black Court.

[Wicked Woodpecker of West]

when Harry had an epiphany that the Black Court of vampires has a connection with the Outsiders, instead of wondering what that connection might be, I started thinking about the other vampire courts.

Could you quote this part about Black Court. I cannot remember it.

The Red King was the progenitor of the Red Court, but what created him?

My bet is - Red King started as a result of some ancient wizard experiments with something like hexenwofs but linked to bat-vampire bestialic aspect rather than wolf. Some fort of mix of ancient totemism and shapeshifting with demon, not necessary Outsiders cult. Then he was able to pass this demon through infection, just like WC pass their demons to their children. Sort of like permanently active hexenbelt in your blood.

But then of course Red Court summoned Outsiders to fight White Council so...

A purpose so important that it was worth gifting them with the monstrous tendencies their demon gives them.  I think they were meant to keep the other vampire courts in check, back when mortals had only a very limited ability to do this themselves.  So it might be possible that Lara could be redeemed, though I'm not betting on that happening.

Dunno. Overall they seem to be too corrupted as whole,  with too little of them redeemable.
Not to mention - Black Court is rather way younger (Dracula founded them), only Reds from mayor ones had as ancient origin like Whites, maybe even older.

So doubt. I think White Court is what is it - someone once made a bad mistake of cursing someone with generational curse or linking demon to own bloodline and it went from there. I think in the end it's quite simple pattern. And even naagloshii considered Lara as a mere phage.

[Bad Alias]

Could you quote this part about Black Court. I cannot remember it.

...

But then of course Red Court summoned Outsiders to fight White Council so...

[Harry thinking at Lash]After which, we were going to have a long talk about my mother and these Outsiders and their relation to the Black Court and exactly what the hell was going on.

Lasciel-Lash, rather-nodded once and said, "I will tell you all that I can, Harry."

Harry's stated explanation was that mortal allies were summoning Outsiders for the Red Court. He could have been wrong.