Did Mab break her word to Harry in Battle Ground?

[Mira]

The exact wording is "Should I fall, I have one last command you would be wise to fulfill.  Kill Molly Carpenter.  As quickly as possible."  Harry asks why and Mab explains "As Winter Lady she shows promise.  But she is not ready to become Mab.  The consequences would be unsettling....for both of you.  Perhaps for all of winter"

But by the words, "you would be wise to fulfill," Mab is leaving it up to Harry.  It is a suggestion, and she is warning him if he doesn't do it, it could go very wrong.  However she isn't telling him he must do it, and there doesn't seem to be any force that would make him do it.

[Wrane]

Hmm. So I wonder how she could say that at all. "The stars shall fall from the sky when Mab keeps not her word" IIRC.

Possibly there is some trick involving it being a conditional order - "Should I fall". IE it's not really an order until Mab is dead, and therefore breaking her word is impossible/irrelevant?

Are we agreed that during the BAT stars will fall and Mab will break her word? or will Mab breaking her word lead to the stars falling.

[forumghost]

My personal take on that is that if the stars are falling from the sky, it means the Outer Gates have fallen, and Mab has failed in her duty (and is probably dead).

[huangjimmy108]

Battle Ground spoliers below:


So Mab basically tells Harry that if she falls in the battle her final order to him would be to kill Molly because she worries what kind of "Mab"  Molly would be.  But when Harry took the mantle of winter knight, wasn't one of his conditions that Mab never order him to harm his friends or family?  Did she just give him an "out" for the Mantle if he wants to take it?  Am I missing something?

Both yes and no I suppose.

Yes, this order is against the previous bargain and No, it does not break her words or at least it does not matter if Mab broke her words anyway.

This order is only effective if Mab died. If Mab died stars will indeed fall from the sky and it does not matter if she broke her word. She is dead. The binding of fae nature that does not allow her to lie or break her promise is not effective anymore.

[Mira]

This order is only effective if Mab died. If Mab died stars will indeed fall from the sky and it does not matter if she broke her word. She is dead. The binding of fae nature that does not allow her to lie or break her promise is not effective anymore.

Or when she died and the Queen's mantle passed to Molly, Molly would no longer be, Molly.  So in essence, Harry wouldn't be killing a person he loved.  That would be very Mabbish, don't you think?

[Arjan]

Or when she died and the Queen's mantle passed to Molly, Molly would no longer be, Molly.  So in essence, Harry wouldn't be killing a person he loved.  That would be very Mabbish, don't you think?

Except it is not true. Certainly not in Mab’s view.

[vultur]

To me this goes in direct violation to the deal where Harry said "And you give me your word that you will never command me to lift my hand against those I love"

It sure sounds like it. But I think it's probably a matter of the wording "Should I fall, I have one last command" meaning that Mab is not actually in fact giving that command. It only becomes operative if she dies, at which point her breaking her oath or not is meaningless.

It's a stretch, but I think that's how Faerie work.

Are we agreed that during the BAT stars will fall and Mab will break her word? or will Mab breaking her word lead to the stars falling.

More or less, but 'keeps not her word' doesn't necessarily mean 'actively breaks her word', it could also mean she is prevented from doing something she promised to do (such as by being killed).

Or she dies and this command to Harry then becomes operative... "Should I fall" doesn't actually limit it to this battle.

Yeah I expect Mab's death to start the BAT... not that my track record for predictions is any good (I expected Eb to die in BG and Murphy not to).

"Stars will fall" might not be literal, could have something to do with the 'Stars and Stones' bit... or could refer to Eb using some kind of Tunguska attack...

[Dina]

Both yes and no I suppose.

Yes, this order is against the previous bargain and No, it does not break her words or at least it does not matter if Mab broke her words anyway.

This order is only effective if Mab died. If Mab died stars will indeed fall from the sky and it does not matter if she broke her word. She is dead. The binding of fae nature that does not allow her to lie or break her promise is not effective anymore.

I agree with this.
Also, I was so shocked as the OP when I read that in BG. My first reaction was that Mab was giving Harry a way out. If she died, her command would be effective and, by breaking her word, she would set Harry free of his obligation to Winter. But I am not sure now, because the wording of the original deal does not meant "the deal will break if Mab do that". Is "Mab won't do that". Period. So Mab doing it, is terrible. Unless she is nemfected, I don't understand why she did that. But perhaps JB has an explanation. I don't think that he would have included the word "command" if he just meant to Mab to give Harry an advise.

[ElJefe81]

I think the operative thing here is that she doesn't expressly indicate that it's a command to Harry.  It's her last command, which would generally go out to all of Winter (ie she's telling the Redcap or Lea or whoever has opportunity).  In true Winter-fashion she realizes that Harry would have the highest chance of success...because he's the one person in Winter Molly would let her guard down for and be susceptible to treachery.  The phrasing here is key in that she suggests he would be wise to fulfill it, but it's clear he, as the Winter Knight, is not ordered to do so. 

[Telynn]

What I don't get is, what would the alternative be?  Mab doesn't think Molly is ready, but if Mab is dead and then Molly is dead.... the mantles of BOTH fall on a couple of people completely unready to be the Winter Queen and Winter Lady?

[Dina]

I believe one of the mantles would go to Lea. The other...I don't know. To a random fae?

[Mira]

Here is a thought that I've been having, if Molly got the Queen's mantle, would Harry have to have sex with her like he did Mab in front of the whole Winter Court?  That might do things to both Harry and Molly that would echo through out Winter.

[bigdangmoose]

For where the mantles go, the closest body of winter, which would be Harry. It was stated, I believe in a WOJ that it would, so the power would go back to winter and Mother Winter would have to pick a new Queen and Lady. Or maybe I'm thinking that because of how SK played out and Harry being incompatible with the mantles.

[Arjan]

Here is a thought that I've been having, if Molly got the Queen's mantle, would Harry have to have sex with her like he did Mab in front of the whole Winter Court?  That might do things to both Harry and Molly that would echo through out Winter.

Probably not. I do not think Mab had sex with all Maeves throwaway knights.

[Dina]

I think that also was the signing of the contract. He won't need to sign again because the contract is still valid, even when the Queen changes.