I cannot wait to see how Harry's snark adapts to the new political situation

[Hankthemoose]

I fully expect him to launch a propaganda war against the WC featuring his usual heavy handed Star Wars metaphors.

For real, though, I expect him to found a new and competing institution of organized Wizardry, incorporating the low talents of the Paranet, and working closely with both Summer and Winter, and focusing on an aspect of balance, like the fae.

This means they wouldn't kill, but rather recruit and work to redeem kids who started the slide into black magic due to lack of guidance. This would allow Harry to begin to build the larger powerbase he refers to at the end of BG.

To balance Harry, and to liaise with Summer, this would involve pulling in Elaine. She is sort of a lighter mirror of Harry, so this would fit very well with the story so far.

The WC would definitely order Eb to kill Harry at this point. He will refuse, causing a schism and breaking the WC's power in the process. Because Jim is an asshole, he would then definitly send Ramirez to kill them both.

[BrainFireBob]

Noted this in another thread. This will look a lot like Kemmler's Thule society from the outside.

[Arjan]

Harry did not use Kemmlers book against the black court. I was hoping for it.

[vultur]

Because Jim is an asshole, he would then definitly send Ramirez to kill them both.

I like most of this, but I really can't see the White Council expecting Ramirez to kill Harry.

If they decided to kill him and Eb refused, they'd probably do a full Kemmler-style mobilization.

Though the actual best bet would probably be to have a mortal do it with a car bomb or sniper rifle. A full mobilization would take time and not be particularly secret, and Harry as the leader of a magical organization and allied by marriage to the White Court would have significant resources of his own - it would be a full-scale war.

[forumghost]

Noted this in another thread. This will look a lot like Kemmler's Thule society from the outside.

Wait a minute... is this what the Paranet is, from the Council's POV?

[ClintACK]

One thought -- if they *do* pull the trigger and order that the Blackstaff kill Harry Dresden, I could see Eb pulling a fast one. He shows up at the Castle, hands Harry the staff and says, "You're the Blackstaff now, Harry."

Also, I'd add to Harry's new group that they'll be 100% open to the non-magical public -- to the point of holding open houses (Meet the Foo Dog!, Pizza night with the Za Guard!) and putting up web pages explaining thresholds and circles and the most common supernatural threats.

I could see that being the trigger for the White Council.

[Yuillegan]

I honestly hope full on Wizard civil war happens. Sure, it will be bad. But I think worth it. I very much agree with Harry that the White Council has gone beyond it's remit and become bullies and mobsters. In saying that, I can understand from their perspective how bad Harry looks and how bad the situation looks. Mab, despite having her reasons and being the defender of Reality is the definition of necessary evil. But she is bad news, she has done terribly awful things. And while we can empathise and even see the necessity of her choices, they doesn't make them "good". World isn't black and white though, so there's that too.

But mostly I want to see Harry destroy those smug bastards because it will be exciting, and hopefully make a new Council. A better one. Closer to what it should be.

[morriswalters]

Harry is going to live in a magic castle in the middle of Chicago and call himself The Wizard Of Chicago. That seems fairly flagrant. A lot like a middle finger to Scotland. And Wizards should move with caution before starting a loud fight in Chicago lest they start to find themselves targets of Hellfire missiles.  And if he gets married to Lara, the WC could find themselves in a war with two groups of monsters. Lara's accountants and the Fomor.

[Psyklone]

I honestly hope full on Wizard civil war happens. Sure, it will be bad. But I think worth it. I very much agree with Harry that the White Council has gone beyond it's remit and become bullies and mobsters. In saying that, I can understand from their perspective how bad Harry looks and how bad the situation looks. Mab, despite having her reasons and being the defender of Reality is the definition of necessary evil. But she is bad news, she has done terribly awful things. And while we can empathise and even see the necessity of her choices, they doesn't make them "good". World isn't black and white though, so there's that too.

But mostly I want to see Harry destroy those smug bastards because it will be exciting, and hopefully make a new Council. A better one. Closer to what it should be.

1.  Yeah, Jim/Harry has pointed out the WC flaws from day one, obviously,  so the build up has to be the complete dissolution/re-organization of the WC.  There will be a fight for that.  Harry has been compared/related to the Original Merlin more than once.  We know that only the original was the only other Wizard entrusted with the swords, and we also know that Harry is a direct line descendant of the original from Eb's diaries.  That said, can you really see Harry as leading the new WC?...  Imo, he would at most be a symbolic figure head for trail blazing the new era...

2.  Mab, imo, is not evil.  Think about what we know of winter.  She is cold and calculating.  She has definitely killed innocents, but it has been a calculus.   Why?  Because in this age it is Winter that is the guardian of mortal existence.  She keeps the walls guarded, and the enemy at bay.  Since she was once mortal she has the basis/foundation for Love/Compassion, and after millennia she is now a battle hardened General who has seen more loss than any one can really comprehend.  Hence, cold and calculating.  Each loss of life is a calculated balance while she fends off the enemy.

[Hankthemoose]

Harry is going to live in a magic castle in the middle of Chicago and call himself The Wizard Of Chicago. That seems fairly flagrant. A lot like a middle finger to Scotland. And Wizards should move with caution before starting a loud fight in Chicago lest they start to find themselves targets of Hellfire missiles.  And if he gets married to Lara, the WC could find themselves in a war with two groups of monsters. Lara's accountants and the Fomor.

This is definitely where things are headed. I also fully expect Harry to go public, trying to establish formal contact with the FBI and the men in black, and selling them the idea of the WC as a serious threat to national security that would be in their interest to contain.

[Yuillegan]

1.  Yeah, Jim/Harry has pointed out the WC flaws from day one, obviously,  so the build up has to be the complete dissolution/re-organization of the WC.  There will be a fight for that.  Harry has been compared/related to the Original Merlin more than once.  We know that only the original was the only other Wizard entrusted with the swords, and we also know that Harry is a direct line descendant of the original from Eb's diaries.  That said, can you really see Harry as leading the new WC?...  Imo, he would at most be a symbolic figure head for trail blazing the new era...

2.  Mab, imo, is not evil.  Think about what we know of winter.  She is cold and calculating.  She has definitely killed innocents, but it has been a calculus.   Why?  Because in this age it is Winter that is the guardian of mortal existence.  She keeps the walls guarded, and the enemy at bay.  Since she was once mortal she has the basis/foundation for Love/Compassion, and after millennia she is now a battle hardened General who has seen more loss than any one can really comprehend.  Hence, cold and calculating.  Each loss of life is a calculated balance while she fends off the enemy.

I can see him setting it up, but he isn't a ruler so I doubt he would rule it for very long even if he was "forced" to. In some ways, if magic were exposed altogether it might not necessitate a White Council organization per se. Harry is very anti-big gov/corp etc. I doubt he would every sign on for anything too centralized, in theory. Always harder to figure in practice.

Depends on your definition of evil I suppose. But most people tend to think killers, whatever their reasons, are pretty bad. Mab is far, far worse than that. She tortures people for fun and would kill humanity if she thought it necessary. Some might call that pretty evil. However, she is trying to do the right thing for Reality. So that's something. I think Jim's various discussions in interviews and AMAs etc have covered how his universe views it i.e. it's less about intentions and more about results. Mab might be intending to do the "right thing". Doesn't make it so if it causes more harm than it's worth.

A great example is Watchmen. If Mab had watched, she likely would have agreed with

(click to show/hide)

Veidts

plan. I won't spoil it for those who might not know the movie but essentially the choice comes down to

(click to show/hide)

killing millions to save billions

. I suspect Mab would agree with that logic. But as Dan/Night Owl 2 basically says: you've saved humanity by mutilating it. It's not a black and white thing, in the real world. People tend to sit on different sides and there are many, many philosophies about these issues. Depending on what beliefs and values you may subscribe to that tends to influence that. As for Jim's Dresdenverse, there is actual Right and Wrong (per a WOJ) and whatever you're beliefs the universe still will pay you back for how much Right and Wrong you do. So I think Mab, and Harry, might get their just desserts. Even if they do save everyone...

[Arjan]

Trolley problems.

[Bad Alias]

This means they wouldn't kill, but rather recruit and work to redeem kids who started the slide into black magic due to lack of guidance.

By sticking them in Demonreach so they know the suffering black magic causes.