!!SPOILERS!! Battle Ground Thoughts and Recap !!SPOILERS!! READER BEWARE

[Rigil Kent]

Mab can make Harry marry Lara, but nobody can force them to "boink." Harry has True Love protection from Karrin (as confirmed in Peace Talks) and even with her dead(ish) I don't see that fading in a year's time, especially as Harry knows she's still around as a Valkyrie. I don't have the book nearby, but I seem to recall his protection from Susan lasted a long time after their breakup. So unless something happens in the next year, the marriage would have to be political only. Lara can't touch Harry without burning herself.

Interesting thought: does that protection still apply since Karrin is now dead? His protection from Susan lasted years ... but she was still alive...

[vultur]

Interesting thought: does that protection still apply since Karrin is now dead? His protection from Susan lasted years ... but she was still alive...

We don't know for sure. The way Thomas explains the effect in BR kind of implies it should, though - it is said to be bits of True Love-infused spirit that "stick to" the person. Any bits of Karrin's spirit stuck to Harry's should still be there.

So unless something happens in the next year, the marriage would have to be political only. Lara can't touch Harry without burning herself.

Marrying Lara might break it in itself - I'd imagine the vows have supernatural weight.

I am actually surprised that Harry getting married is even a possibility, as the Winter Knight is said to be "consort to the Queens of Winter". They might need to do something special with the vows -- I doubt Harry can swear to "forsake all others".

[BrainFireBob]

Just as surprising, Mab can't marry.

Lady can't boink, Queen can't marry. Mother can't have kids?

[Mira]

Just as surprising, Mab can't marry.

Lady can't boink, Queen can't marry. Mother can't have kids?

Mab had two daughters, twins I believe, at some point with a mortal.  Maeve and Sarissa.

[vultur]

Just as surprising, Mab can't marry.

She said it had to do with something that happened when she was mortal... I took that as meaning that it was because of some oath she had taken, not a condition of the Queen mantle.

And this too is a bit odd with the "consort of the Queens of Winter" bit. I took the Stone Table scene in Changes to be essentially a ritual consummation of Harry's "marriage" to Mab.

[BrainFireBob]

Which has no connection to what I said? She can't marry. The Lady can't indulge in carnal urges.

[Mira]

We don't know for sure. The way Thomas explains the effect in BR kind of implies it should, though - it is said to be bits of True Love-infused spirit that "stick to" the person. Any bits of Karrin's spirit stuck to Harry's should still be there.

Yup, if Harry isn't with any other woman or anyone that would qualify as a lover, it still sticks.  I believe that Lara found that out in White Night, it had been four or five years since Susan, and kissing Harry still burned her lips.

[Rigil Kent]

Yup, if Harry isn't with any other woman or anyone that would qualify as a lover, it still sticks.  I believe that Lara found that out in White Night, it had been four or five years since Susan, and kissing Harry still burned her lips.

Right. But Susan was still alive at that point. I'm sort of presuming that Harry is protected by Karrin, but its a potential loophole ...

[Arjan]

We don't know for sure. The way Thomas explains the effect in BR kind of implies it should, though - it is said to be bits of True Love-infused spirit that "stick to" the person. Any bits of Karrin's spirit stuck to Harry's should still be there.

Marrying Lara might break it in itself - I'd imagine the vows have supernatural weight.

I am actually surprised that Harry getting married is even a possibility, as the Winter Knight is said to be "consort to the Queens of Winter". They might need to do something special with the vows -- I doubt Harry can swear to "forsake all others".

You assume a monogamous marriage but the Sidhe are old, old style and pre christian. They might not have that clause.

Lara certainly doesn't want it.

 

[Rigil Kent]

Lara certainly doesn't want it.

I'm not sure if that's entirely correct. Mab told her that Lara had the Queen's permission to court her Knight and Molly was P.O.ed at Lara throughout PT & BG, so it seems to me that she is quite aware of what is required to tie the White Court to Winter. And she's never hidden the fact that she does find Harry not entirely hideous...

[vultur]

Looking at it again, I'm even less sure that Mab is actually saying she can't marry (in general), as opposed to can't marry Lara.

As with most Fae things, precise wording is likely important.

You assume a monogamous marriage but the Sidhe are old, old style and pre christian. They might not have that clause.

Lara certainly doesn't want it.

Oh absolutely there would be no expectation of fidelity for either Winter or White Court. It's more a matter of, I thought Harry's oath to Mab was "absolute" enough that it might be incompatible with later marriage vows unless they were written specifically to deal with that.

[Arjan]

I'm not sure if that's entirely correct. Mab told her that Lara had the Queen's permission to court her Knight and Molly was P.O.ed at Lara throughout PT & BG, so it seems to me that she is quite aware of what is required to tie the White Court to Winter. And she's never hidden the fact that she does find Harry not entirely hideous...

Oh she wants Harry,

But not in a monogamous marriage forced by a ceremony. She wants to feed and if Harry does not boink someone she can not even touch him.

So the monogamous clause must go.

[Arjan]

Looking at it again, I'm even less sure that Mab is actually saying she can't marry (in general), as opposed to can't marry Lara.

As with most Fae things, precise wording is likely important.

Oh absolutely there would be no expectation of fidelity for either Winter or White Court. It's more a matter of, I thought Harry's oath to Mab was "absolute" enough that it might be incompatible with later marriage vows unless they were written specifically to deal with that.

Oh I am sure that Harry is still married to Mab in some way but I do not think that this will in any way stop another marriage.

[morriswalters]

I don't care if Harry marries Lara.  There are plenty of loveless marriages.  A child on the other hand would create a vampire.  And there is no way that Harry could be sure he could be there when the time came. 

Note to Jim, think of peasants torches and pitchforks.

[Rigil Kent]

I don't care if Harry marries Lara.  There are plenty of loveless marriages.  A child on the other hand would create a vampire.

Inari Raith asks if she doesn't count.