AMA Highlights

[toodeep]

My question is, who were/are Bob's parents?  A being is born with some of the knowledge of its parents, and I would assume the parents have to at least sort of like each other for this level of intimacy to work.

We believe the Bob goes back to the middle ages.  He also seemed to favor winter as his main source of connections, so I kind of assume one of his parents is winter related.  I have a hard time believing that what knowledge the parents pass on to the child can be well controlled, so it seems unlikely someone with a vast amount of powerful secrets (like Mab) would risk creating something like Bob.  If he was older I would wonder if he could be tied into Merlin and/or Odin, but he's too young (I think) to be tied in to Merlin or into Odin as a full fledge god.  I wonder if he could be a cheap Odin-imitation of what Zeus did with Athena.  I really want to learn who Athena's mom is in the Greek god book...

[vultur]

  If he was older I would wonder if he could be tied into Merlin and/or Odin, but he's too young (I think) to be tied in to Merlin or into Odin as a full fledge god.

His origin could be associated with Odin's transition from being a full god to a "mostly retired god". IMO that probably lined up with the Christianization of Scandinavia... which is not too far off from Battle of Hastings era so could be associated with the transition of the Gates to Winter (from the Aesir?)

This might even be part of the reason why Odin has the Kringle Mantle. Given that Kringle is "Winter but Wyldfae", he can keep "in touch" without being directly involved.

I wonder if he could be a cheap Odin-imitation of what Zeus did with Athena.  I really want to learn who Athena's mom is in the Greek god book...

Well, in mythology, when she has a mother at all, it's Metis. (A Titan of wisdom or cleverness, described by Hesiod as Zeus' first wife. Zeus swallowed Metis while Metis was transformed into a fly, and Athena was born out of Zeus' head.)

Definitely a sort of parallel to Harry and Lash...

EDIT: fixed unfinished sentence

[Mira]

Definitely a sort of parallel to Harry and Lash...

Bonea was born out of Harry's head, not Lash.

[The_Sibelis]

Uriel has always interfered with mankind, under orders of course, after all he is the Almighty's wet-works archangel..  I mean if you go and kill off the male first born of all the Egyptians, I don't what else you could call it but interference.

I have a pet theory TWG came down as TWC and when he died he got a different position based in his deeds in life. Since TWC basically died to give us choice, his new job is enabling choice.. ever since he showed up as Jake the Janitor... Whose clearly based on God in Bruce Almighty,

[Conspiracy Theorist]

i think the trinity aspect of the White God is applicable, given other series of threes in the series, Christ was created from the White God to experience humanity, got Nemfected and the crucifixion was a ceremony to allow the removal of Nemesis and the restoration of Christ as part of the White God. It may also have had other implications against the Outsiders and the influence of Nemesis we aren’t aware of yet, the White God works on a lengthy timescale. Uriel is under this a separate entity to the White God,  an Archangel. The whole purpose may be to figure out a cure for another Archangel who Uriel keeps in check.

I do wonder if Hells Bells is Harry invading Hell with Nicodemus to cure Lucifer, foreshadowed by their team up in SG to get the super weapons. Removing Lucifer from the board would be a major blow to the Outsiders permanently, and not just for this cycle, as whilst Uriel checks him, he checks Uriel. I would imagine it as a Dirty Dozen mission, heroes and villains whereas SG was Oceans 11

[The_Sibelis]

The guy famous for being born under a star not a starborn!?
Lucifer doesn't work with the outsiders, and neither does Nic. Lucifer balancing things out is a very important part of the metaphysics of the DF, his removal would have dire consequences to the balance, not positive ones.

[Yuillegan]

i think the trinity aspect of the White God is applicable, given other series of threes in the series, Christ was created from the White God to experience humanity, got Nemfected and the crucifixion was a ceremony to allow the removal of Nemesis and the restoration of Christ as part of the White God. It may also have had other implications against the Outsiders and the influence of Nemesis we aren’t aware of yet, the White God works on a lengthy timescale. Uriel is under this a separate entity to the White God,  an Archangel. The whole purpose may be to figure out a cure for another Archangel who Uriel keeps in check.

I do wonder if Hells Bells is Harry invading Hell with Nicodemus to cure Lucifer, foreshadowed by their team up in SG to get the super weapons. Removing Lucifer from the board would be a major blow to the Outsiders permanently, and not just for this cycle, as whilst Uriel checks him, he checks Uriel. I would imagine it as a Dirty Dozen mission, heroes and villains whereas SG was Oceans 11

Some interesting ideas but there is WOJ saying that Lucifer isn't nemfected and Nemesis has limits. The idea being Nemesis cannot corrupt Archangels. No idea on regular angels though.

[vultur]

Bonea was born out of Harry's head, not Lash.

Right, I meant the parallel is that Harry had Lash's shadow in his brain as an internal advisor and later gave birth to Bonea.

Whereas Zeus swallowed Metis (who is then presented by Hesiod as becoming Zeus's advisor of sorts, or perhaps his wisdom aspect) and later gave birth to Athena.

Since TWC basically died to give us choice, his new job is enabling choice.. ever since he showed up as Jake the Janitor... Whose clearly based on God in Bruce Almighty,

That may be the out-of-story inspiration, but Jake is Uriel, not God.

The guy famous for being born under a star not a starborn!?

It sounds good, but the timeline doesn't work. Harry was born within a year or so either way of 1975. 666 x 3 = 1998, so that would be like 24 BC. There's a bit of uncertainty in Jesus' birthdate, but it's like 1 AD-6 BC at the broadest.

And yeah, no Nemfected Lucifer. Nemesis doesn't operate on that level.

I don't think Nemesis is relevant to the Heaven/Hell conflict at all, which operates across all universes. Nemesis is an Outsider agent in one particular universe.

(I think Nemesis is a lot less powerful than we assume, actually. It jumped from Lea to Maeve, not Mab, when co-opting Mab would have meant victory. And Lea was able to meaningfully resist, though she needed Mab to be cured.)

[The_Sibelis]

@Vulture, apparently you don't get it, I'm directly implying, hell outright stating my belief Uriel is TWG, disagreeing won't change my opinion I assure you.
And we can throw the silly starborn timeline out the window. I just theorized, like right here, just to put forth an alternative headcanon than on relying on a cycle we still know practically nothing about, Maggie and Malcolm actually traveled forward in time at one point so although we know Harry's physical age we don't know the year he was really born. This is why Malcolm is a stage magician, he comes from an era it was still in Vogue.

[morriswalters]

There is nothing to indicate that Malcolm time traveled is there? And exactly what does the story get out of Uriel being anything other than an Archangel?  Assuming this Starborn thing means anything, the only time travel needed could be had simply by moving in and out of the Never Never. A fact which given what we know of her, is something she would have known how to do.

[The_Sibelis]

There is nothing to indicate that Malcolm time traveled is there? And exactly what does the story get out of Uriel being anything other than an Archangel?  Assuming this Starborn thing means anything, the only time travel needed could be had simply by moving in and out of the Never Never. A fact which given what we know of her, is something she would have known how to do.

depth, the story gets depth. Which isn't something Jim's known for or anything lol?
That's the kind of time travel I meant, she took Dresden into the passing lane, probably by accident, and came out much later.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Mister has more chance of being the White God rather than Uriel, celestial ranking (according to cats)

Cats
White God
Archangels
Angels
Monkeys

[The_Sibelis]

Mister has more chance of being the White God rather than Uriel, celestial ranking (according to cats)

Cats
White God
Archangels
Angels
Monkeys

now thats ridiculousness.
Besides, we already know the original creator deity/MS abdicated, where do you think he went then eh? Into a story that makes sense or just off into the distance cause you, for no particular reason, disagree with a valid theory? And I say he, because the older mythos always have a male figurehead 'father sky', Dagda, ect. So no, it's still a possibility, you can disagree, you can't tell me the odds.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

You are of course aware that the earliest representation of a deity (paeleolithic) is female? (well it’s either religion or porn, we can guess where Bob would put his money).

Robert Graves ‘The White Goddess’ is an excellent treatise on the subject of matriarchal deities and some decent poetry as well.

If you state that Uriel is the White God, then you rank Lucifer as the equal of the White God, instead of ‘merely’ being another Archangel whose counterweight Uriel is. I suspect the White God/Goddess involvement is limited to celestial spotlight which illuminates a Starborn every 666 years.

[The_Sibelis]

No, am I speaking a foreign language recently!?  He abdicated his role, and switched jobs.... he /was/ TWG, under that theory.
Take the Woj that the fall happened immediately after creation, that makes TWG Creator. Not MS, who holds the self same position.
And actually, yea. Lucifers Job is specifically to counter balance TWG, so we know of any other entity that thematically fits? And yet counterbalances are a key thing in the DF. Lucifers the darkest shadow, TWG would the brightest being. They actually match up succinctly. And of course you could take uriel's name differently, God is my Light, ei, God shines through me.
... You think that TWGs involvement is limited to starborn celestial events but don't think TWC, whom he sent(ergo an involvement) is a starborn?🤔