About Bob... (Spoilers All, Spoilers today's AMA)

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Not Merlin see other thread.

We have seen both Bob’s parents in series. Bob is 1,000 years old and is the product of the union of a mortal and an immortal. Bob has a massive fascination with sex. Bob in Grave Peril was massively excited to see Lea despite being terrified of Winter and Mab in particular, and in a way he hasn’t been about anyone else (except  porn stars/directors).These are the known facts

Random guesses which do not meet the known facts are pointless, you might as well guess Larry Fowler and the Redcap, which would not produce a spirit of intellect (but might produce a TV Executive, the complete opposite, the horror!).

If anyone finds evidence which helps then put it forward. For example his parents are not an Angel or Fallen as he lacks knowledge in relation to the Swords. Same with Demonreach, as he doesn’t know about the island. If we have examples of Bob being knowledgeable, or lacking knowledge then we can remove certain characters from consideration.

[ClintACK]

We know one of the parents probably has to be possessing the other. But if we rule out fallen shadows (because he's not on a faith wavelength) -- what else have we seen possessing people? Ghosts.

But I'm not sure that helps any. Have we seen any ghosts that are old enough?

[The_Sibelis]

They're are kinda different layers to possession, I'd argue a mantle is a possession with extra coding in the program, what the fallen do, ect.
The thing that throws me for a loop atm,vis one parent died to make Bonnie but we've seen Bob's parents, plural... So how did that happen? The old fashioned way?

[Snark Knight]

The thing that throws me for a loop atm,vis one parent died to make Bonnie but we've seen Bob's parents, plural... So how did that happen? The old fashioned way?

Lash sacrificing herself was a selfless act of love, but it seems that's not the only way to conceive a spiritual being.

Theoretically, if someone was pulled into the NN in astral form, like when Harry summoned Mab to negotiate for the Knighthood and got pulled to the stone table instead ... if they got it on with a Sidhe who they were in true love with, but didn't use their physical body, could that birth a SOI instead of a changeling?

[The_Sibelis]

Pretty sure what harry and mab did remade the WK mantle specifically for harry. It's why it mirrors him. Using the table basically unmade the mantle but gave winter back its power. So yea..

[ClintACK]

Crazy idea: Mavra and the Archive. Mavra was the Archive's host, a long time ago. Crazy circumstances surrounding her death led to a piece of the Archive's knowledge imprinting on a bit of her soul and splintering off like a ghost -- voila: Bob! (Mavra was left as a black court Vampire and with her death the Archive moved on to its next host.)

Another crazy idea: Mac and Ethniu. (If Mac is McKinneally (sp?) then he was Ethniu's husband, at least long enough to father the child that would grow up to kill Balor...)

[Dina]

They're are kinda different layers to possession, I'd argue a mantle is a possession with extra coding in the program, what the fallen do, ect.
The thing that throws me for a loop atm,vis one parent died to make Bonnie but we've seen Bob's parents, plural... So how did that happen? The old fashioned way?

That we have seen it in the books does not mean that they are alive. It could be somebody like Sir Stewart or something mentioned in the books, like Siriovax.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

We know one of the parents probably has to be possessing the other. But if we rule out fallen shadows (because he's not on a faith wavelength) -- what else have we seen possessing people? Ghosts.

But I'm not sure that helps any. Have we seen any ghosts that are old enough?

Actually we don’t, you are presuming this is the only form of interaction creating a spirit of intellect, when it would appear this circumstance is unique to Harry at least with the Denarians,  nor is it likely that it is a ghost as the only such spirit in book old enough is Sue.

Mavra is too young, Bob is 1,000 years old.

Mac and Etnui’s Child is well documented in folklore, not Bob.

[vultur]

I'm not sure it necessarily needs to be possession, but lots of beings we might think of as spirits have changelings/scions, not spirits of intellect.

Half-Fae/half-humans are changelings, mostly human until they Choose. Glau in PG is a djinn/human scion, and he's still mostly human, not a spirit.

So I think a supernatural being in nonphysical/pure-spirit form, or a bodiless shadow of a greater supernatural being, would have to be one of the parents.

Fae seem pretty tied into the Changeling/Choice mechanic, so I'm skeptical of Mab or Lea. Also, if Bob were Mab's son, I'd expect him to be incorporated into Winter's power structure, not essentially exiled and fearing for his life.

What about Odin (possibly with Gard, who might be mortal enough, yet is over 1000 years old)? He has ties to Winter as Kringle, but isn't of its power structure, Kringle is still Wyldfae. Odin is a god of knowledge, writing, and magic (among many other things).

Odin seems physical, but we really don't know what he is *under* his Mantles. Even if he is basically physical, he might be able to do something like the 'shadow' effect. IMO Valkyries are sort of like the Faerie Knights, so Odin probably can split off part of his power.

[The_Sibelis]

Odin already gave birth to two Soi imo, hugin anmunin. In the category of things that keep repeating, pretty sure the Archive was formulated out of Merlin or another old renditions Soi. I say Merlin cause of her purpose..

[ClintACK]

In Greek myth, Zeus swallowed the oceanid titan Metis. Months later, he suffered from terrible headaches. Hermes identified the problem, Haephestus split open his skull, and Athena burst out fully formed right down to the weapons and armor.

So... in Peace Talks, we've seen an ocean-based Last Titan. But that doesn't seem to fit anything.

In Grave Peril (and Dead Beat, and Ghost Story) we see that supernaturals can power up by literally eating the ghost/spirit/energy of other powerful beings.

And in Dead Beat and Ghost Story we see that spirits of information can be split into different independent beings containing different information. See: Evil Bob.

So...

Could some spirits of information form when an immortal takes up incompatible mantles and needs to carve out a piece (like Bob did to Evil Bob) to make what remains into the coherent whole they want? Could such spirits spin off in the aftermath of a Death Hallow, as the consumed souls consolidate to form the new god? (like planets forming in the leftover debris ring as a star is born?)

Could Odin's Ravens be leftover bits of his former greater mantle of power -- spun off to be separate from him, so he can be Vadderung and interact with mortals, but still there to be used and, in a worst-case scenario, reabsorbed to reascend to the power level that makes Ethniu respect "what he was".

Theory: Bob was created as a spin-off of Mab's ascension ritual when she became more than mortal. He either doesn't need a second parent, or the second parent is Titania. The timing is about right, isn't it?

[vultur]

Odin already gave birth to two Soi imo, hugin anmunin.

Yeah, I think Odin's ravens/Vadderung's receptionists are essentially the same principle ... but probably without another parent involved.

Probably more directly analogous to Lasciel producing the shadow Lash, actually.

Something similar might have occurred with the splitting of Hecate's power among the various Faerie Queens.

And the Faerie Knight Mantles are apparently chunks of power split from the Queens' Mantles, from the WoJ about whether the Erlking could have a Knight.

So the general principle might be fairly common among beings of great power in the Dresdenverse.

-

The more I think about it, the more I think Odin fits.

It would explain Bob having connections to Faerie and specifically Winter, but also being an outcast (if he were Mab's son, I'd expect her to have made him her advisor or something - incorporating his dangerous knowledge into the power structure of Winter).

Given the 'obvious' statement, the other parent would then probably be Gard, since she's established in "Heorot" to be older than Bob and to have or once had a relationship with Odin.

The other option that could be considered 'obvious' might be Demonreach and the original Merlin (if Bob's video in CD counts as him having "appeared in the Dresden Files"). But there's no Faerie connection and Bob doesn't seem particularly Demonreach-y.

[vultur]

Pretty sure what harry and mab did remade the WK mantle specifically for harry. It's why it mirrors him. Using the table basically unmade the mantle but gave winter back its power. So yea..

Given the Celtic connections of the Fae, I think this is supposed to be a mystical marriage to a goddess representing a transfer of power. Similar to what the first high kings of Ireland are mythologically supposed to have done.

Now it doesn't make Harry a king, but the Winter Knight is called "consort of the Queens of Winter" after all, and "consort" in this context probably means "spouse of a ruler". And Mab says to Lara in PT that Harry is a member of her House ... not just her Court, but her House, i.e. presumably the "royal house" of Winter.

I'm not sure it did anything magical to the Mantle itself compared to just transferring it in the usual way... I think it's more Mab emphasizing her claim to Harry in a ritual way (thus her "projecting" it to all of Faerie).

[knightedbishop]

My money is on Merlin (the original) and Mab.

Bob is incredibly knowledgeable when it comes to mortal magic (see chapter 15 of Cold Days, where Bob says to Harry "I'm conversant in the course and application of the Art since the golden age of Greece"). We know the original Merlin was a magical genius. He learned from Odin (according to Ebenezer). We know he time traveled to build Demonreach. Plus there's a potential familial relationship (or more likely a master to apprentice relationship). Ebenezer has masters' journals going all the way back to the original Merlin. It would be only fitting that a spirit of intellect born of Merlin would end up in the hands of his penultimate protege. Heck, it may have even been intentional.

As for why Mab, his two key characteristics fit. Bob is about intellect and doesn't much understand emotions. He is horny as hell. In Cold Days, Titania talks about how her sister follows the mind and logic. From Cold Case, we know the creatures of Winter are filled with a hunger to procreate.

[The_Sibelis]

@vulture of course it did something, she had him unmake the mantle, cleansing it and then ritually had him remake it. Consort, he with whom they mate, make babies? It's not at all the usual way of transferring the mantle, as she'd previously given it to Maeve to hand out, and Aurora gave it to lily. Neither of which could ahh mate. So she has him go through the process of unmaking the mantle on the table, which transfers power not the form of it, meaning she'd have to remake it, it being remade through sex is highly suggestive esp combined with him being the consort. The ritual itself had purpose. It's almost like she planted an embryo, and I'd point out, despite bonnie's natural growth, he didn't start getting pressed for mental room(ie headaches) until after he had the mantle. Their wasn't enough room for both.
Or coming at it from another angle, she's the queen, she's had sex, even children, but she's not automatically the mother.. because she has to birth an entity into this world, not a human. The mothers are the mothers because they split a portion of themselves off and handed it down to the courts, literally giving birth to them(hence why mother is only the name associated with their fae identity).
I predict

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Harry will take Molly's virginity, freely given by the person but resisted by the mantle and in doing so, in an act of love, will break the mold giving birth to.. well, whatever. In the vein of everything similar between Odin and Harry(like now the spear, which was predicted correctly off of the same principle btw) Harry is now beefy AF as the WK, (as opposed to a lean runner which harry was in his younger days, same as Odin... and that damned wolfish smile is showing up an awful lot recently...)which matches Odin as Kringle. All that's left is for him to break off an identity all his own for it

when it becomes its own thing, that's when she's Mother in the technical sense. The mothers gave birth to the courts, which per SK ARE the queens, like entirely. So when the courts give birth..