Who called up the corner hounds and why didn't anyone notice...?

[KurtinStGeorge]

So corner hounds; A.K.A. the Hounds of Tindalos, are attracted by time travelers.  However, Ebenezer told Harry that, "Someone just whistled them up."  So someone summoned them.  My guess is the practitioner would have just summoned Outsiders in general and the corner hounds responded because Ebenezer had been doing some recent time travel.  An alternative is Ebenezer crossed paths with another practitioner (Black Council) who followed Ebenezer back to Harry's present, or sent his current self a message, and this person specifically called up the corner hounds to target Ebenezer.  I think that alternative is too complicated; after all these books aren't called the Ebenezer chronicles, so there's no need for that level of complication.

So, either someone like Cowl called up the corner hounds; even if Cowl never makes a public appearance in Battle Ground, or someone who was a part of the White Council contingent to the peace talks, called them in.

I'm not taking a position on this question.  We don't have a significant positive clue to point either way.  However, there is one odd thing that I would call a negative clue.  (I know there are other, more accurate terms than positive and negative clues, but I can't think of what they are at the moment.) 

To get to the point, why didn't Warden Ramirez notice that one of Harry's hands had been bandaged since he had seen him on the beach that morning?  I'm thinking that after Harry had punched a gas tank and had the wound or wounds on the hand debrided, Butter's would have used something a hell of a lot larger than a couple of band-aids to cover them.

It may be a clue the Ramirez already knew that Harry had tangled with corner hounds and had injured his hand or it could be sloppy writing on Jim's part.  I wonder if any of the beta readers noticed this?  Yes, I know that Ramirez and company were preoccupied with Harry's visit to the Raith compound, but Harry's hand should have been noticeable.  In fact, any of the other wardens should have noticed Harry recently bandaged hand and asked him about it.  Hell, Lara should have asked Harry about it.  Even if; one, the guilty party didn't see that Harry injured his hand, or; two, none of the wardens are guilty of calling up the corner hounds, they should have noticed Harry's wounded hand.  Harry explaining that he had tangled with outsiders a few hours earlier would have added an interesting complication to that conversation.

While I'm at it, shouldn't Harry have mentioned the corner hounds at the security meeting with the other wardens before the dinner?  Aside from discussing the possibility of other assassination attempts after Etri was attacked, the fact that Outsiders had been called up by an unknown party should have made that meeting more than a, "boring all-business meeting" as was stated at the beginning of chapter 19.

I hate saying this, but this is another indication to me that the process of splitting the story into two books took time and effort away from finding and fixing the errors or weaknesses in the overall text. 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The likelihood is that the magic used for time travel by a mortal summons the Hounds as a side effect of its use, as a time traveller you put yourself at risk of the Hounds, which terrifies even Eb as the most powerful mortal practitioner. You create a paradox which weakens reality allowing them in. This may suggest why you shouldn’t travel against the currents of time, but travelling with them is permitted as it doesn’t create a paradox, letting in the Hounds.

The effect was localised to Chicago, so all that Eb had to do was make sure there were no other wizards in Chicago at that point, and he had the authority for that, except for Harry. The White Court may not be sensitive to it and the Swartalves had other concerns. The Winter Lady was in Russia. He thought he could get away with it, or was unaware that it called the Hounds. There is no reason to suggest Eb had time travelled before,  (otherwise he would have corrected his mistakes with Harry and Margaret) he might merely had to deal with warlocks and Kemmler who had and had ended up fighting the Hounds their actions summoned, not realising the link.

[vultur]

Time travel per se might not be the only thing that summons the Hounds of Tindalos, maybe travel between parallel universes also does. And the next book was planned to be Mirror Mirror (before the PT/BG split, that is...)

Eb has the license to break the Laws of Magic, but from what Odin/Kringle says in CD I am not sure how much he actually can do. If it's difficult for even Odin/Kringle (presumably far more powerful than any mortal wizard) to do a relatively small time-shift, and actually changing history is even harder, what could Eb do?

But presumably that Law exists for a reason, so there must be a way for mortal wizards to break it and do harm.

So who knows.

the fact that Outsiders had been called up by an unknown party should have made that meeting more than a, "boring all-business meeting" as was stated at the beginning of chapter 19.

That does seem kind of suspicious.

Though given that Harry was watching Justine's house at the time, he might not have told anyone because it might be related to Thomas and Harry doesn't want the Council to know about that.

[KurtinStGeorge]

Time travel per se might not be the only thing that summons the Hounds of Tindalos, maybe travel between parallel universes also does. And the next book was planned to be Mirror Mirror (before the PT/BG split, that is...)

Eb has the license to break the Laws of Magic, but from what Odin/Kringle says in CD I am not sure how much he actually can do. If it's difficult for even Odin/Kringle (presumably far more powerful than any mortal wizard) to do a relatively small time-shift, and actually changing history is even harder, what could Eb do?

But presumably that Law exists for a reason, so there must be a way for mortal wizards to break it and do harm.

So who knows.

That does seem kind of suspicious.

Though given that Harry was watching Justine's house at the time, he might not have told anyone because it might be related to Thomas and Harry doesn't want the Council to know about that.

But knowing how Ebenezer feels about the White Court, if Harry thought there was a possibility that the corner hounds had something to do with Thomas, why would Harry expect his grandfather to keep knowledge of that encounter to himself?  It seems to me that Ebenezer is more likely to use anything he could to seal Thomas' fate.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

This thread should be re-titled along the lines of “Who Let The Dogs Out, Who, Who, Who, Who ....”

[morriswalters]

@KurtinStGeorge
Harry gives a rationale for this when he talks about secrets isolating you.  Generally speaking everybody is keeping secrets at the peace conference and it keeps them from working together.  Harry doesn't trust the Wardens, the Wardens don't trust Harry and Thomas is being used by who know what.  Eb doesn't tell his right hand what his left hand is doing.  Even River Shoulders is keeping secrets.  This is about fun, fantasy, and confusion.  Keep everybody milling around until you land the sucker punch. It was just a lame sucker punch.

[vultur]

But knowing how Ebenezer feels about the White Court, if Harry thought there was a possibility that the corner hounds had something to do with Thomas, why would Harry expect his grandfather to keep knowledge of that encounter to himself?  It seems to me that Ebenezer is more likely to use anything he could to seal Thomas' fate.

It might be just general "wizards keeping secrets" as morriswalters says, but I think also the difference is that Eb wants to get rid of Thomas and keep Harry in the White Council. He doesn't want Harry to be obviously seen as taking Thomas' side.

And I doubt Eb generally reports to the Wardens about stuff he fights anyway. Harry, as a Warden, might be expected to.

EDIT: Also, I'm not suggesting that Harry thought the Cornerhounds had something to do with Thomas specifically, in the sense that they were the result of Thomas doing something nefarious. More likely he assumed that one of the other groups watching Justine's house summoned them.

[Mira]

   It could be that they were sent as yet another distraction.  They also could have been a preemptive
strike by the Fomor.  If indeed the Gates are being attacked, unless it is opportunistic on the part of
the Outsiders, they are in league with the Fomor.  So why wouldn't they try to take out the most dangerous member of the Senior Council, the Blackstaff?  And while they are at it the star child, Harry?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Outsiders have to be whistled in by a mortal, presumably due to free will. That means a significantly powerful practioner. Eb either did it unintentionally, and they sought him out ,or another wizard did it intentionally setting them on Eb.

[Mira]

Outsiders have to be whistled in by a mortal, presumably due to free will. That means a significantly powerful practioner. Eb either did it unintentionally, and they sought him out ,or another wizard did it intentionally setting them on Eb.

Justine?  Christos?  Nic?  Cowl?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Justine and Nic are not practitioners, although the protection on True Love like the bodysuit, would also stop her magical aura being read by Harry, did they touch in Grave Peril?

Nic isn’t a practitioner, but has them working for him, he figures why fix his own toilet, when he can hire a plumber. Hmm he wanted to hire Harry as a ‘plumber’.

Has anyone any idea what happened to Austin? His new Master may have been Black Council and used him to summon the Hounds, we are getting a lot of shout backs from the stories in PT, and he is as naturally gifted in Summoning as Molly is with veils, or Harry in making things explode, or Carlos in virginity.

[Mira]

Justine and Nic are not practitioners, although the protection on True Love like the bodysuit, would also stop her magical aura being read by Harry, did they touch in Grave Peril?

Nic isn’t a practitioner, but has them working for him, he figures why fix his own toilet, when he can hire a plumber. Hmm he wanted to hire Harry as a ‘plumber’.

Has anyone any idea what happened to Austin? His new Master may have been Black Council and used him to summon the Hounds, we are getting a lot of shout backs from the stories in PT, and he is as naturally gifted in Summoning as Molly is with veils, or Harry in making things explode, or Carlos in virginity.

Depends on what you call a practitioner..  It's been a while since I read Blood Rites, but I don't think it took much talent to call up an Outsider, just the right ritual/words.  Those that I mention would have access to both the ritual/words and someone who could do it.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

If it were that easy then we could be ass deep in Outsiders, the Gates exist for a purpose, and  make it difficult to whistle in the Outsiders.

[morriswalters]

I'm currently assuming that BG ends with another cliff hanger into Mirror Mirror.  With that in mind, one possible person who might be interested in calling in an outsider might be Harry 2, for who knows what? Maybe to drag off Harry to some more convenient reality.

[vultur]

If it were that easy then we could be ass deep in Outsiders, the Gates exist for a purpose, and  make it difficult to whistle in the Outsiders.

IMO, Winter (and, in past eras, other defenders of the Gates) keeps the Outsiders from just overrunning Reality. The Gates themselves let Winter go on the offense and help check for Nemesis incursions.

But mortal magic can still summon Outsiders. IIRC it's a free will/invitation thing, like thresholds. The Outsiders can't just rampage in and unmake Reality, but if you invite them in, that's different.

-

I think it kind of *is* that easy, if you know something about Outsiders and magic, are crazy enough to do it, and don't get killed by the Wardens.

Which probably actually doesn't describe that many people, so it's not really that easy in practice.

But the bad guys never seem to have that much trouble getting Outsiders...

- Justin summoned HWWBehind before the series.
- The "evil eye cult" summoned HWWBehind in BR... though he didn't actually attack, just threatened Harry, so I'm not sure he was 100% "there" in a physically capable form.
- The Red Court's allies used Outsiders in the big offscreen battles in DB, and also in PG.
- Vitto Malvora is possessed by an Outsider in WN.
- Peabody's mistfiend in TC was probably an Outsider (it's said to be "from the far reaches of the Nevernever", but a later book calls it an Outsider. At the very least, it's Outside-connected due to mordite.)
- There's a ton of them in the attack on Demonreach in CD, including HWWBefore.
- A pack of cornerhounds shows up in PT.

(I think there's also an Outsider in the graphic novel "War Cry", but I haven't seen that one...)