Why Didn't Justine Just Abort?

[BrainFireBob]

My experience would be, Thomas wouldn't bring it up if that was the decision, they'd just have done it.

If he wanted help convincing Justine, he might approach his brother privately.

This reads like anxiety about fatherhood, and he's not reaching out to his father on it- leaves his brother, who does have kids

[Mira]

My experience would be, Thomas wouldn't bring it up if that was the decision, they'd just have done it.

If he wanted help convincing Justine, he might approach his brother privately.

This reads like anxiety about fatherhood, and he's not reaching out to his father on it- leaves his brother, who does have kids

Possibly, but it also might be a hard subject for Thomas to bring up.  All he talked about was the danger to Justine, not whether or not he'd make a good father.  That is how Harry read it I think, but that is opinion.  However before the subject got much further, as in Harry asking Thomas how come their mother survived or have any others survived, Carlos showed up.

Pretty sure the reference is to Bonea, not Maggie. That "birth" could easily have killed Harry without Molly's help. It's not biological exactly, but the situation is not that dissimilar.

Actually Harry didn't have a whole lot of choice, remember it was simply called "the parasite,"  by the time he knew what it was, Bonea was too far into the process and couldn't be easily removed. Also Mab used the extreme pain Harry felt from her being in his head as leverage.  Also even with Molly's help, giving "birth" to her meant he'd live, not his almost certain death.  So, no, not the same at all.

[TrueMonk]

My wife was completely certain by six weeks both times.

I have tried typing out answers on why it makes sense Harry does not suggest abortion. But l can't detail it more and not make it more personal than what is appropriate for a forum discussion. So I will just leave it at the factual info above.

[vultur]

Actually Harry didn't have a whole lot of choice, remember it was simply called "the parasite,"  by the time he knew what it was, Bonea was too far into the process and couldn't be easily removed.

Yeah, Harry didn't have much clue of what was going on (because Mab kept him away from Molly).

Also even with Molly's help, giving "birth" to her meant he'd live, not his almost certain death.  So, no, not the same at all.

Right- what I said was without Molly's help it probably would have killed him. Which is what Mab said would happen, and avoiding that is part of why Harry had to work with Nicodemus (rather than stay on Demonreach where even Mab probably couldn't get at him).

[Mira]

Right- what I said was without Molly's help it probably would have killed him. Which is what Mab said would happen, and avoiding that is part of why Harry had to work with Nicodemus (rather than stay on Demonreach where even Mab probably couldn't get at him).

 Point, Harry didn't want to die, he wasn't willing to go along with the high risk of dying so Bonea could live.  Mab had him by the short hairs so to speak..

[vultur]

Point, Harry didn't want to die, he wasn't willing to go along with the high risk of dying so Bonea could live.  Mab had him by the short hairs so to speak..

Oh yeah it's not directly parallel.

I think it might still be emotionally relevant, though (in the sense that it all worked out and Harry now, looking back on it, wouldn't want Bonea not to have been born).

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Oh yeah it's not directly parallel.

I think it might still be emotionally relevant, though (in the sense that it all worked out and Harry now, looking back on it, wouldn't want Bonea not to have been born).

Exactly, Harry’s opinion as a mother is valid in this context, as a father not so much.

[vultur]

It's not certain, even here. Just high risk.

Justine, recall, essentially has extra soul- it's the base of her relationship with Thomas.

Now that is an interesting thought. But does she still have extra after nearly dying in BR?

I also wonder if Justine's on-and-off True Love protection will alter the parameters.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Souls regenerate if given time and opportunity like spending time with loved ones. The domestic bliss shown in Thomas’s Apartment shows that this is likely. Indeed it may have been what triggered the pregnancy.

[Mira]

Exactly, Harry’s opinion as a mother is valid in this context, as a father not so much.

At best, Harry was a surrogate vessel for Bonea's development.  It was subconscious Harry or his Id that was the father, I'm willing to bet that conscious Harry wouldn't have wanted anything to do with fathering a child with Lash. So again, not close.

Souls regenerate if given time and opportunity like spending time with loved ones. The domestic bliss shown in Thomas’s Apartment shows that this is likely. Indeed it may have been what triggered the pregnancy.

I am not sure this has much to do with the true love protection as far as the White Court goes.  We've had this debate before and apparently rape can destroy it, or a one night stand can destroy it.  It seemingly is all about the sex act itself and nothing to do with "true love feelings." One in a moment of weakness or under the influence of alcohol or drugs, can have a one night stand, but still truly love someone else, so even though your still feel true love, your protection is gone.  It isn't about soul regeneration, Thomas and Justine still love one another truly, she lost her protection from his touch because she has what was for her merely physical pleasure sex with another.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

True Love and soul regeneration are separate but related concepts, Harry’s use of Soulfire is analogous to feeding by a hunger, if both are overdone there is nothing left. If time goes by, especially spent in satisfying fulfilling activities then it helps the sole regenerate faster.

Maggie in that respect is a power up for Harry, as is Murphy. Just doing the ordinary loving day to day stuff with them allows his soul to recover much faster. Mouse and Mister also help his soul recover (but if you read Misters POV story “Everything the Light Touches”, it clearly isn’t reciprocated by Mister to the large monkey). Time spent with the Carpenters and Thomas and Eb and the Alphas help. Some of these will have been taken away from him.

Christmas Eve shows a Harry at a low point he will have used  Soulfire extensively in Battle Field, cheering him up isn’t just about making him feel better, it’s about refilling his tank for the next time he needs Soulfire. That’s what Mab and Kringle and Uriel (in Christmas with the Carpenters) are doing making sure that his soul grew three sizes.

[morriswalters]

Justine didn't abort the child because it would have eliminated the theme Jim wanted to use. And it would have inevitably offended some readers. And a non zero chance of having a child is exactly what it says. Nearly sterile is not sterile. Thousands of couples learn this each year, with the whiney refrain, I didn't think I would get pregnant. That's the answer to the question as unsatisfying as it is.

In the text the answer could be as simple as, Thomas and Justine believe that the child is more important then the risk.  Which doesn't mean that Thomas wouldn't sell his soul to the devil to have both the child and Justine.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Narrativity, not just Nativity.

[Mira]

Justine didn't abort the child because it would have eliminated the theme Jim wanted to use. And it would have inevitably offended some readers. And a non zero chance of having a child is exactly what it says. Nearly sterile is not sterile. Thousands of couples learn this each year, with the whiney refrain, I didn't think I would get pregnant. That's the answer to the question as unsatisfying as it is.

In the text the answer could be as simple as, Thomas and Justine believe that the child is more important then the risk.  Which doesn't mean that Thomas wouldn't sell his soul to the devil to have both the child and Justine.

  Agree with all of that.

True Love and soul regeneration are separate but related concepts, Harry’s use of Soulfire is analogous to feeding by a hunger, if both are overdone there is nothing left. If time goes by, especially spent in satisfying fulfilling activities then it helps the sole regenerate faster.

Possibly, but not as a concept of protection from the White Court in my opinion.  Several years ago we went around and around on this subject.  One can have true love with more than one person, Harry has shown that.  However protection from being fed upon it is very fragile and a bit complex.
True love should be and is totality of heart,mind,and soul, the physical not so much.. Still, the simple act of Justine having loveless sex breaks the protection from being touched or fed upon.  What she feels for Thomas is still true love, but she is no longer protected..

[Bad Alias]

Justine, who apparently is almost certain to die here.

According to the family records, just over fifty percent either don’t survive the delivery or die shortly after.

That's not even close to almost certain. Given advances in medical care over the decades and likely centuries the family records go back, it's probably more likely than not that Justine will survive the pregnancy. A certain, or even large, percentage of that death was likely due to mundane causes, especially when combined with the mother's weakened state. From the 1700's through the invention of antibiotics, the mortality rate for mothers was 400-500 per 100,000 in Britain. Today in the U.S. it's 15 per 100,000.

Especially if she is on birth control, supposedly Thomas is "for intents, sterile,"  two weeks late for your cycle could mean a lot of things.

And my kind are all but infertile to boot.

All but infertile and for all intents and purposes sterile are not the same thing. For example, for all intents and purposes sterile could mean that one could conceive, but the pregnancy would end before any noticeable physiological effects. All but infertile means very nearly or all except. So either Thomas isn't infertile at all because he's an exception to the general rule, or all wamps are just very unlikely to impregnate a woman (or get pregnant for the females) in any given attempt. Eventually unlikely things happen given enough repetitions.

Also even with Molly's help, giving "birth" to her meant he'd live, not his almost certain death.  So, no, not the same at all.

After Harry found out, Murphy said they'll "get that parasite out of your head." Harry responds that they "can't kill the parasite. We have to save it." Emphasis added. Also, without Molly, it did mean certain death for Harry. I'm not going to lay odds on what were the chances of Molly arriving in time because all we know is that she did. So outside of the slightly more likely to die than live probability being just unknown, it's exactly the same situation Justine is in. I think this shows that Harry wouldn't even consider abortion.

Exactly, Harry’s opinion as a mother is valid in this context, as a father not so much.

Harry has had experience in choosing between his True Love and his child, so he's got the exact experience Thomas needs.