Will Harry Have to Come Clean?

[forumghost]

Remember that all Harry has done is move Thomas from a prison cell *in which he was dying* to one in which he's held in stasis. If the politics are handled properly, the svartalves might owe a debt for that -- the transfer and rescue have spared them the dishonor of having Thomas die in their custody waiting for trial.

Regardless of where Thomas is, I expect the svartalves will want an emissary appointed and a hearing held to rule on the attack. That's the point at which it would be really helpful if Harry could present them with the actual culprit and evidence of what happened.

Personally I'm hoping that Marcone tries to force the issue, only for Harry to say where he is and have Etri go "Y'know what, that probably satisfies the demands of Justice, you can let him out whenever, I consider this settled."

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I think we will have the Emissary appointed and Harry will present evidence to clear Thomas, although his current condition does mean he can’t be examined for mental tampering. That makes it difficult to clear him.

I think what will happen is that Harry will force a confession in this case, from Eb or Evanna in front of the Emissary.

[vultur]

I think we will have the Emissary appointed and Harry will present evidence to clear Thomas

I doubt it. I think BG will be largely about the battle and no one will have time for this political stuff.

And after that... well, depends how the situation stands after the big battle. Lots of things could happen that would radically change the situation.

If Harry ends up imprisoning the Titan & is therefore publicly revealed as Warden of Demonreach, the svartalves might be a lot less willing to go against him. (And they should know how Harry responds to threats to family...)

Sure, Harry won't use the power of Demonreach for something like that (... probably... I think he might have in Changes if he'd known), but can anyone outside his POV be sure of that?

(BTW, I doubt Thomas was under mind control. So I don't think there is going to be evidence to clear him.)

[Conspiracy Theorist]

There is always time for that politics stuff......unfortunately. And Swartalves are not known for letting thing’s slide. Nor is Harry a bully, he hates bullies.

The other point is the weapon of assassination, a bomb, whilst Thomas could undoubtedly build one, it is unlikely he could smuggle it past Swartalf security. Which means it was already in the Embassy, and Thomas was used as a dupe by someone in the Embassy to take it to Etri. Eb could have dead dropped it off on his prior visit, or Evanna could have made it and passed it to Thomas to present to Etri.

If Thomas needed a weapon he could have physically taken one from a guard, lured Gedwig away and broken his neck, taking his weapon.

[Mira]

There is always time for that politics stuff......unfortunately. And Swartalves are not known for letting thing’s slide. Nor is Harry a bully, he hates bullies.

The other point is the weapon of assassination, a bomb, whilst Thomas could undoubtedly build one, it is unlikely he could smuggle it past Swartalf security. Which means it was already in the Embassy, and Thomas was used as a dupe by someone in the Embassy to take it to Etri. Eb could have dead dropped it off on his prior visit, or Evanna could have made it and passed it to Thomas to present to Etri.

If Thomas needed a weapon he could have physically taken one from a guard, lured Gedwig away and broken his neck, taking his weapon.

If the bit about the Hounds is true, then Eb could have easily by time travel dropped off the bomb for Thomas to use..  Or Cowl did, he knows some nasty Ways in the Nevernever which might open on the Embassy grounds.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The Swartalves are paranoid security freaks, Eb may have used the visit to Harry to test their defences and response times, he otherwise really had no need to visit Harry at that point in person, so this suggests a pretext on his part. The Swartalves took no action because Harry vouched for Eb, and because the Peace Talks themselves were imminent, and the White Council was a “friendly” power.

I don’t think the Never Never is an option into the Embassy.

There is also the question what purpose the assassination achieved, successful it would have removed Etri and set a war between the White Court and Swartalfheim, where the Accorded Nations would have come in on the side of the Swartalves. That purpose is usurped by the Titan and her challenge, unless the removal of Etri would have allowed Evanna to strip away from the Accords. As it is the Swartalves are not providing manpower only weaponry and defences.

Unsuccessful and it merely sets the White Court/Swartalf war in progress. A bomb is an imprecise weapon, suggesting it wasn’t really intended for Etri, but it’s discovery early to its triggering in Thomas’s hands would be enough to achieve this purpose.

[Mira]

I don’t think the Never Never is an option into the Embassy.

Would you have thought it an option into the "Depths" under Lord Raith's mansion?  Yet Cowl and his ghouls managed to open one to attack, Outsiders were also in larger planning on that one.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

There is nothing to suggest Cowls involvement in Thomas attack, and the Swartalves are the White Court, the White Court can only enter and exit the Nevernever in places close to their hungers nature. The Swartalves are accomplished magic users and don’t have that restriction.

[Mira]

There is nothing to suggest Cowls involvement in Thomas attack, and the Swartalves are the White Court, the White Court can only enter and exit the Nevernever in places close to their hungers nature. The Swartalves are accomplished magic users and don’t have that restriction.

But would you be shocked if Cowl popped up?  We haven't seen him in a while.  Oh Cowl entered the Depts from the Nevernever and as far as I know he has nothing to do with any of the vamp courts.

[vultur]

There is always time for that politics stuff......unfortunately.

I really doubt they will be lining up an Emissary and holding trials while a Titan and a Fomor army are attacking the city.

Now maybe immediately afterward... but I doubt it will be in BG at all.

Story-wise, it's not immediately relevant. The Svartalves can't go after him in Demonreach, and Harry and Lara don't yet know how to heal him so he can survive outside of Demonreach.

Thomas is not in "Christmas Eve", so I think he's still in Demonreach months later. This will probably be left for future books to resolve.

As far as the Svartalves know, Thomas mysteriously disappeared.

Once he pops up again, healed, *then* it's an issue (and Lara might be able to handle that).

And Swartalves are not known for letting thing’s slide. Nor is Harry a bully, he hates bullies.

Bullying, sure. But saying "if you want to kill my brother you'll have to go through me first" is entirely in theme for him.

EDIT: finished/fixed sentence about "Once he pops up again"

[Bad Alias]

Would you have thought it an option into the "Depths" under Lord Raith's mansion?

Yes, maybe not a safe or good one though. Skilled practitioners are the ones known for being able to block entry from the Nevernever. Whites aren't known for that. Svartalves are.

[Mira]

Yes, maybe not a safe or good one though. Skilled practitioners are the ones known for being able to block entry from the Nevernever. Whites aren't known for that. Svartalves are.

  My point though, and perhaps I wasn't clear, Harry and Cowl were both opening gates to the Nevernever in the Depths.  If no one knew he was coming, someone could easily have opened a gate to get Thomas where he needed to be.

[Arjan]

  My point though, and perhaps I wasn't clear, Harry and Cowl were both opening gates to the Nevernever in the Depths.  If no one knew he was coming, someone could easily have opened a gate to get Thomas where he needed to be.

And Gard can set up such defenses. I forgot which book it was mentioned.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Which Gard?

[TheCuriousFan]

  My point though, and perhaps I wasn't clear, Harry and Cowl were both opening gates to the Nevernever in the Depths.  If no one knew he was coming, someone could easily have opened a gate to get Thomas where he needed to be.

Harry isn't anywhere near as smooth as Cowl with opening gates. No convenient gates to where he wants to go, only the default for him while Cowl gets mildewland from wherever he is.

In this case a NN escape with Thomas would be a non-starter since he either runs into any defences or he ends up in whatever fortress is on the NN side of Marcone's fortress.