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Author Topic: "I can't," she said. (Spoilers for Peace Talks and Cold Case)  (Read 7046 times)

Offline Dina

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Re: "I can't," she said. (Spoilers for Peace Talks and Cold Case)
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2020, 09:03:22 PM »
Quote from: Arjan on July 29, 2020, 10:01:27 AM
An angel won’t tell him. That would interfere with Molly’s telling him and though Molly does not have free will anymore it is still her decision.
Same reason Harry won’t tell.

I disagree. Interfering with Molly free will would be preventing her to tell (if she wanted to) or forcing her to tell (if she did not want). Telling Michael before she could does not affect her free will. Harry would respect her decision, not for free will concerns but for respect to Molly's feelings and privacy. But Uriel could tell Michael if the WG wants. Butters and Sanya are a little in the middle.
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Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: "I can't," she said. (Spoilers for Peace Talks and Cold Case)
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2020, 09:18:27 PM »
What surprised me about that conversation was that Harry didn't say something like, "Do you want your parents to find out from you or from one of your or my enemies?"  Because it seems to me that the longer Molly holds out the more likely that is how Michael and Charity will find out, even if they don't immediately believe what they hear.  Even someone like Ebenezer might stop by looking for Harry; assuming they've patched things up, and accidentally mention Molly's new status in casual conversation.
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Offline Dina

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Re: "I can't," she said. (Spoilers for Peace Talks and Cold Case)
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2020, 09:29:42 PM »
I agree, I thought the same, not necessary an enemy but someone else.
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There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Second Aristh

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Re: "I can't," she said. (Spoilers for Peace Talks and Cold Case)
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2020, 09:49:39 PM »
Quote from: Arjan on July 29, 2020, 07:16:58 PM
Depends on wether she was already infected. She would be mostly Behave Fae but keeping information to help nemesis would have been in character.
She was likely infected at the end of SK.  When she rescues Harry and the Alphas, she mentions that Lea sends her regards.  Nemesis striking while Mab was distracted seems a safe bet.
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Offline ClintACK

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Re: "I can't," she said. (Spoilers for Peace Talks and Cold Case)
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2020, 09:58:25 PM »
If there aren't Winter Law things going on, it's disappointing to see Molly reverting to the very same mistake that got her into trouble in Proven Guilty. She's grown up a lot since then and shouldn't be making the same mistake that almost destroyed her.
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Offline vultur

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Re: "I can't," she said. (Spoilers for Peace Talks and Cold Case)
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2020, 10:05:41 PM »
Quote from: Arjan on July 29, 2020, 06:10:35 AM
But he might have realized later. For all we know Michael already knows just like he knew about Lasciel's coin. It is not out of character for Michael to wait for Molly to tell him.

From what he says in PT, Michael knows something has happened, that Molly has taken on some kind of supernatural position/role/debt/obligation, but I don't think he knows specifically that she is Winter Lady.
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Offline morriswalters

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Re: "I can't," she said. (Spoilers for Peace Talks and Cold Case)
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2020, 10:06:30 PM »
Unless Michael is willfully blind he's gonna know by the end of Battleground.  And deep down he may know now.  Harry has sold the wicked faerie thing for so long that I suppose that Molly see's herself as evil. She died on that hill.  Fathers can forgive a lot, but....
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Offline Dina

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Re: "I can't," she said. (Spoilers for Peace Talks and Cold Case)
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2020, 10:09:48 PM »
That is one of the most interesting things about Christmas Eve after reading PT. It seems that Molly is more or less fine with her parents, but Michael is not angry at Harry and Charity at least allowed him to be there with Maggie on Christmas Eve. So, that's good, I guess?
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There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: "I can't," she said. (Spoilers for Peace Talks and Cold Case)
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2020, 11:00:23 PM »
Quote from: Dina on July 29, 2020, 10:09:48 PM
That is one of the most interesting things about Christmas Eve after reading PT. It seems that Molly is more or less fine with her parents, but Michael is not angry at Harry and Charity at least allowed him to be there with Maggie on Christmas Eve. So, that's good, I guess?

That seems to be a reasonable conclusion to make.  I'm not sure when Peace Talks is taking place, but my guess is that in Christmas Story Michael and Charity have had about six months to get over the shock and any anger they might have had towards Harry.  However, I remember an interview I read with Jim right after Cold Days came out (Damn, that was a long time ago.), where he said the conversation where Molly's parents find out their daughter is now; "slutty Queen of the kinky fae"  (I think those were the exact words Jim used.), would not go well and Michael would have some anger issues to deal with.  Of course, this is how Jim imagined the scene back then.  It's possible he changed his mind and wrote it somewhat differently. 

(I have not been able to find that interview since about six months after I first found it online.  Perhaps the website where I read it; and it was a written interview, is no longer up.)
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 11:09:18 PM by KurtinStGeorge »
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Offline vultur

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Re: "I can't," she said. (Spoilers for Peace Talks and Cold Case)
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2020, 12:45:53 AM »
Quote from: KurtinStGeorge on July 29, 2020, 11:00:23 PM
(I have not been able to find that interview since about six months after I first found it online.  Perhaps the website where I read it; and it was a written interview, is no longer up.)

Are you sure it isn't the one way down this page ( https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/2014-transcripts-from-audiovideo-woj-sources/ )?

Quote
Yeah, that might…that might just be a small part of the next book…what’s going on with that. Yeah, Harry has to go up to Michael and say, “Yeah, about your daughter, ummm….she’s sort of the….she’s sort of the…..the trampy queen of Faerie these days…that’s kind of the job she inherited, so, you know, if she shows up looking weird……er, try not to hold it too hard against her?” Uh, we’ll have to see how that pans out, because Michael is, you know, he has a great heart, great soul, but he’s not a saint. He’s definitely going to have his limits. Somebody’s going to get Charity with her nail-gun at the rate things are going. We’ll have to see what’s going on, that’s what it’s shaping up like though. It’s going to be fun to see that happen.

It's not exactly the same wording, but this phrasing seems more accurate given Molly's limitations as seen in Cold Case.
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Offline Mira

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Re: "I can't," she said. (Spoilers for Peace Talks and Cold Case)
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2020, 04:37:03 AM »
Quote from: morriswalters on July 29, 2020, 10:06:30 PM
Unless Michael is willfully blind he's gonna know by the end of Battleground.  And deep down he may know now.  Harry has sold the wicked faerie thing for so long that I suppose that Molly see's herself as evil. She died on that hill.  Fathers can forgive a lot, but....

  I don't think Molly sees herself as evil, but she is conflicted.  She was brought up in a strict Catholic home, went to Catholic school, it was bad enough when she discovered she had talent, she couldn't go to her parents then.  She knew her mother's attitude towards Harry, this is much more complicated.  I also agree by Christmas Eve, at least while Michael may not be happy with what she has become, he is at peace with it.
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Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: "I can't," she said. (Spoilers for Peace Talks and Cold Case)
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2020, 05:23:27 AM »
Quote from: vultur on July 30, 2020, 12:45:53 AM
Are you sure it isn't the one way down this page ( https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/2014-transcripts-from-audiovideo-woj-sources/ )?

It's not exactly the same wording, but this phrasing seems more accurate given Molly's limitations as seen in Cold Case.

It could be from that page, but I recall the website I read it on had a lot of advertising on it.  Something much more commercial.
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Offline Dina

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Re: "I can't," she said. (Spoilers for Peace Talks and Cold Case)
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2020, 05:36:38 AM »
So, Harry will tell him? I am not so sure that is going to happen here. Perhaps that is one of those cases where JB changed his mind (and another example of why I never care too much for WoJ. Unless it is in the text, it can change.
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There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline vultur

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Re: "I can't," she said. (Spoilers for Peace Talks and Cold Case)
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2020, 06:41:22 AM »
Quote from: Dina on July 30, 2020, 05:36:38 AM
So, Harry will tell him? I am not so sure that is going to happen here. Perhaps that is one of those cases where JB changed his mind (and another example of why I never care too much for WoJ. Unless it is in the text, it can change.

That WoJ is pre-Skin Game, so yeah, it didn't happen like that. Harry ended up dodging the issue when it came up.
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