Raith Reservoir [Peace Talks Spoilers]

[Grifter]

We were debating this in the 'What is Lara's problem?' thread but I wanted to get a larger consensus and not derail that thread.

A known issue for Wamps is that they have to feed regularly.  Another known issue for Wamps is that if they exhaust too much energy (a la Thomas getting beaten in Peace Talks), their demon can go full parasite and devour the host.

My proposal is this: an artificial reservoir for lust energy.

Benefit:
If a Wamp gets dangerously low on energy, he could tap the reservoir for either a boost to continue fighting, or to sate the hunger of the demon to prevent it from feeding on themselves.  It would effectively help a Wamp exceed their own natural reservoir of energy limitations, which is apparently a thing.

Drawback:
A small percentage of energy would be syphoned from the feeding, and it would potentially go to waste if unused.  It would presumably need to be recharged regularly, as most enchanted items do.

Components:

• An enchanted item that can act as a reservoir for energy, similar to Harry's bear belt buckle (Gravel Peril).
• An enchantment that would syphon a small percentage of lust-fueled spiritual energy when the Wamp feeds, similar to Harry's rings absorbing kinetic energy.
• Optionally, a thaumaturgic link between a bunch of these items and a Queen item that would get a percentage of the percentage from each of the others. (Not advertised to the masses, but maybe 1% of 1%?)
• A wizard/sorcerer/being experienced enough and inclined enough (via favor/payment) to help create the enchantment, but not at a cost so steep that Lara would be unwilling to pay it.

Concerns noted by vultur so far:
 - Can lust energy be stored?
 - Can a wamp feed on stored lust energy?

For the first, I'd argue yes. In Storm Front, Harry commented that Victor Sells' lake house was surrounded by an aura of lust and fear and hate.  This would suggest that the lust energy used in Sells' spell was capable of being transferred to an area/object even without the intent to do so.

For the second, I'd argue yes. Lara is able to feed Thomas in Peace Talks without invoking lust.

'Usable' Energies stored so far:

• Kinetic energy in rings
• Kinetic energy in the staff
• Raw spirit energy of life in the bear belt buckle
• Knowledge/wisdom in Margaret's ruby
• Sunshine in a hankerchief

Query:

• Do we think this is possible?
• Do we think this would be beneficial?
• Do we think it would be worth the cost/time/effort?

Relevant text:

It seethed with negative energy, anger and pride and lust. Especially lust. Lust for wealth, lust for power, more than physical desire.

It seems like the lust was mostly Sells' own desire for power, but the text suggests that there was physical desire as well. Debatable, though.

I touched my left hand to my belt buckle and whispered, “Fortius.” Power rushed into the pit of my stomach, a sudden tide of hot, living energy, nitrous for the body, mind, and soul. Raw life radiated out into my bones, running riot through my limbs. My confusion and weariness and pain vanished as swiftly as darkness before the sunrise. This was no simple adrenaline boost, either, though that was a part of it. Call it chi or mana or one of thousand other names for it—it was pure magic, the very essence of life energy itself. It poured into me from the reservoir I’d created in the silver of the buckle. My heart suddenly overflowed with excitement, my thoughts with hope, confidence, and eager anticipation, and if I had a personal soundtrack to my life it would have been playing Ode to Joy while a stadium of Harry fans did the wave. It was all I could do to stop myself from bursting into laughter or song.

Raw spirit can be stored, and it can induce an emotional reaction in the bearer.

[Arjan]

It was only used once and I think Jim did his best to forget about it.

[Grifter]

It was only used once and I think Jim did his best to forget about it.

The same could be said about a bunch of things, until they come back around.

Heart explody spell book one, bloodline curse book twelve.

Gray background dude spell book two, most powerful beings barely notice me dude spell book sixteen.

Bringing things back around but in bigger scale is kind of becoming a thing.  And Harry now has, assuming Thomas survives and still has his hunger demon, a motivation to help Thomas never get so weak again.

[KurtinStGeorge]

My proposal is this: an artificial reservoir for lust energy.

I'm not saying your idea is unworkable, but I suspect a wizard; and maybe more than one, would have to set it up for them and that's not terribly likely.

In a more practical sense, wasn't Club Zero set up for exactly the same reason?  It's a place any House Raith White Court vamp can go to fill up the tank when they don't want to waste time finding new victims.

[Grifter]

I'm not saying your idea is unworkable, but I suspect a wizard; and maybe more than one, would have to set it up for them and that's not terribly likely.

In a more practical sense, wasn't Club Zero set up for exactly the same reason?  It's a place any House Raith White Court vamp can go to fill up the tank when they don't want to waste time finding new victims.

A wizard seems most likely, but I think there are others capable. Monoc, the Summer Court, and the Svartalves are all good at different types of magic and enchantments.  And the Svartalves trade in sex and craft items.  So there would be options.

As for Club Zero, that does them no good when they're in a fight or near death like Thomas is.

[Bad Alias]

There's also the question of can WCVs fill their tanks. If they can't fill their tanks, they don't need a gas can.

[Grifter]

There's also the question of can WCVs fill their tanks. If they can't fill their tanks, they don't need a gas can.

What do you mean?  I think the item would be the source of the power and the wamp would feed from it. It wouldn't give the host the power for the demon to then feed from.  That probably wouldn't be healthy.

[Bad Alias]

Tank is an analogy for a WCV's store of energy. A gas can is something that one uses to fill a gas tank. In the analogy, a gas can would be the device you suggest. What I'm saying is that if a WCV cannot fill up his reservoir of energy, but just ad more and more as he feeds, then the gas can would be pointless.

[Grifter]

Tank is an analogy for a WCV's store of energy. A gas can is something that one uses to fill a gas tank. In the analogy, a gas can would be the device you suggest. What I'm saying is that if a WCV cannot fill up his reservoir of energy, but just ad more and more as he feeds, then the gas can would be pointless.

A gas can wouldn't fill most tanks. But if the tank runs out, it can put some fuel in to keep it running until you can get it to the gas station.

What you're saying is that it'd do no good to put a couple gallons into a tank running on fumes, because what's the point if it can't fill it? 

Thomas's tank ran dry in PT, to the point that he was running on fumes. In this analogy, Lara managed to syphon gas from her own running car to put some gas in Thomas's tank to keep it running.  In the process she left herself running low on gas, either due to having a small tank herself, or spilling a lot in an unorthodox transfer method. 

What I'm proposing is a small gas can that's kept in the trunk, and if the tank gets low, then it can be used in an emergency.  And if Lara showed up with her own reserve, they could put even more in, to prevent Thomas's engine from dying.

[forumghost]

No he's saying that if Wampires have no upper limit to how much they can hold, why would they bother with a back-up tank, since that energy can just be kept in the main tank.

[Grifter]

The argument being touted elsewhere is that Lara was weak and drained at the end of PT because her tank was empty because her tank isn't as big as Thomas's.

Otherwise there's not much explanation for her empty tank when she'd had an orgy and fed off a guard all within hours of feeding Thomas.  The only suitable explanation at that point would be that there's nearly 100% energy loss in their feedin nursing method.

[Bad Alias]

No he's saying that if Wampires have no upper limit to how much they can hold, why would they bother with a back-up tank, since that energy can just be kept in the main tank.

Something like that. Any mechanism that prevents the tank filling up in a manner that would make it better to just feed more than it would have an external reservoir. I'm not saying that's the case. I'm saying it's an additional practical concern regarding the feasibility of making a gas can.

The argument being touted elsewhere is that Lara was weak and drained at the end of PT because her tank was empty because her tank isn't as big as Thomas's.

Sure, but not by me. A thought occurs to me that the difference between one wamp and another might be about fuel efficiency instead of the tank's capacity. Both is more likely than either/or.

[Grifter]

Something like that. Any mechanism that prevents the tank filling up in a manner that would make it better to just feed more than it would have an external reservoir. I'm not saying that's the case. I'm saying it's an additional practical concern regarding the feasibility of making a gas can.
Sure, but not by me. A thought occurs to me that the difference between one wamp and another might be about fuel efficiency instead of the tank's capacity. Both is more likely than either/or.

I think it works either way. 

We know that the "Hunger" of Wamps is variable, and how Lord Raith established dominance.  I don't think we know the exact nature of that, because we're used to thinking of hunger as a state rather than a force. 

Maybe the "Hunger" is equivalent to allure, and his ability to overwhelm the senses of others is his only advantage.  Maybe there's no top to the tank, and it can be infinite storage for any wamp.

But clearly it doesn't work that way, seeing how often Wamps run out.  Thomas has been drained numerous times, Lara's sisters needed immediate feeding after the battle with the Naagloshi, and Lara was spent after feeding Thomas.

Wamps just don't seem to have the ability to sustain their power without constant feeding.  Except for Lord Raith, who managed it for almost thirty years.

So I'd still argue that them having a snack pack in reserve would be valuable.

It's basic banking. You can keep all your money in your debit account, but if you do that, you might find yourself overdrafting due to poor budgeting and an untimely expense.

Putting some money into savings as you go might mean a little less to spend along the way, but over time you get used to the budget, and then if something happens, you've got a reserve to draw from.

[vultur]

Concerns noted by vultur so far:
 - Can lust energy be stored?
 - Can a wamp feed on stored lust energy?

Well, that's not exactly what my issue with this is.

I am not convinced that there is really such a thing as "lust energy" in the Dresdenverse. I think the White Court Vampires use emotions* to access life force from a person/being. Not that the emotion itself is the energy.

Similarly with Sells, or Harry using his rage in a spell. When Harry does that it still draws on his own energy... Harry almost kills himself in GP with an anger fueled spell ("Pyrofuego") because he just about used up all his own life force.

For the second, I'd argue yes. Lara is able to feed Thomas in Peace Talks without invoking lust.

The lust bit is not as central as it seems, Raith are not absolutely locked into feeding on just one emotion. (Madrigal Raith can use fear, from WN.) There's a WOJ that the Houses feeding on specific emotions is as much cultural/political as anything.

But I think you need life capable of emotions. I really doubt that Lara or Thomas could feed on, say, Sells' lake house.

'Usable' Energies stored so far:

See I'm not sure this is the right model (different kinds of stored energies).

I think the magical energy is just magical energy, all the same kind. The different items just use it in different ways. It's the same thing as how a computer and air conditioner and microwave and lightbulb all run on electricity, IMO.

[Grifter]

Well, that's not exactly what my issue with this is.

I am not convinced that there is really such a thing as "lust energy" in the Dresdenverse. I think the White Court Vampires use emotions* to access life force from a person/being. Not that the emotion itself is the energy.

Similarly with Sells, or Harry using his rage in a spell. When Harry does that it still draws on his own energy... Harry almost kills himself in GP with an anger fueled spell ("Pyrofuego") because he just about used up all his own life force.

The lust bit is not as central as it seems, Raith are not absolutely locked into feeding on just one emotion. (Madrigal Raith can use fear, from WN.) There's a WOJ that the Houses feeding on specific emotions is as much cultural/political as anything.

But I think you need life capable of emotions. I really doubt that Lara or Thomas could feed on, say, Sells' lake house.

See I'm not sure this is the right model (different kinds of stored energies).

I think the magical energy is just magical energy, all the same kind. The different items just use it in different ways. It's the same thing as how a computer and air conditioner and microwave and lightbulb all run on electricity, IMO.

Sure, but we've seen storage of energy retain the traits of the origin, like the sunlight in the hanky and the kinetic energy and any other spell or or potion Harry has made.  If the vessel were designed to store spirit energy in the form it was gathered, wouldn't it remain consumable?