Battle Ground Casualties [Peace Talks Spoilers]

[Conspiracy Theorist]

   There are going to be gut wrenching casualties me fears...  When you think gut punch, you then have to narrow the list down considerably..  Those are Murphy, Eb, Listens to Wind, Thomas, possibly Justine, depending on how she dies, these would be real blows to the solar plexus.. Billy, Luccio, Carlos, would hurt, but a tear or two and one would get over it like when Morgan died.  Though I admit if Toot buys it I won't ever think of pizza the same again..

I think Toot is safe, his story arc isn’t done, though I think he will cease to be one of the little folk, I think after Battle Ground he may shed his wings and become much larger, say playmate size for Maggie. Same with Lacuna. Harry may have to send them to board at St Marks to get an education (Toot is especially lacking), especially if Toot is promoted to squire of the Winter Knight.

[vultur]

I really do think Murphy is going to survive BG and last until at least the BAT.

Eb really seems doomed after PT.

Before I get to my guesses, I want to point out what JB has been doing since SmF. He has been systematically taking away Harry's allies. SmF it was Michael, TC it was Morgan, Changes was Susan, CD was Molly, SG was Butters, and now in PT we lose Thomas. And we have even lost Will and Georgia off page do to them being parents.

I mostly agree with the principle, but before TC Morgan was more enemy than ally. Even in DB he tried to kill Harry (and came very close), they almost fought in PG, and Morgan wasn't in WN or SmF.

And Susan had been gone for 6 books before Changes. Her death was a huge loss to Harry, but on the emotional side, not really a loss of an ally in the sense of someone he could rely on for help or support (she'd been on a different continent for years).

And I expect Will and Georgia to be back in BG. Being parents may make them less risk-taking and have less time available in general, but defending the city is different, I think.

[bigdangmoose]

I really do think Murphy is going to survive BG and last until at least the BAT.

Eb really seems doomed after PT.

I mostly agree with the principle, but before TC Morgan was more enemy than ally. Even in DB he tried to kill Harry (and came very close), they almost fought in PG, and Morgan wasn't in WN or SmF.

And Susan had been gone for 6 books before Changes. Her death was a huge loss to Harry, but on the emotional side, not really a loss of an ally in the sense of someone he could rely on for help or support (she'd been on a different continent for years).

And I expect Will and Georgia to be back in BG. Being parents may make them less risk-taking and have less time available in general, but defending the city is different, I think.

Murphy might, but JB has said no one is safe. She may bite it in the next book, the book after, somewhere down the line, or at the end. The set up is there, so I think it will be used sooner rather than later.

As for Morgan, reread the short stories posted on the website. It will give more insight to Morgan's mind.

We won't have Will and Georgia because we would have seen them already.

[Mira]

And Susan had been gone for 6 books before Changes. Her death was a huge loss to Harry, but on the emotional side, not really a loss of an ally in the sense of someone he could rely on for help or support (she'd been on a different continent for years).

But see that is why Murphy is going to die..  We are due for a real gut punch.  Harry is due for a huge life changing gut punch.   Susan's death was an emotional loss, but not a huge one, he went through that loss just prior to Summer Knight when he showed up to a Council meeting in his bathrobe. He went through real clinical depression partly because he loved and lost her,but a lot because he was beating himself up because he felt responsible for what happened to her.  When Susan actually died, Harry didn't have time to wear sack cloth and wail, yes, it was hard for him to face little Maggie, but he did it, and has gotten past that death.  Why? Because he had already had done his mourning between Grave Peril and Summer Knight for the death of the Susan he knew, when Susan died for real, those tears had already been shed.

Murphy is another kettle of fish all together.  Since Fool Moon she has mostly had his back in most fights and the one person outside of Michael and occasionally Butters he'd bare his conscience with. Her death emotionally will make what happened to him after the loss of Susan seem like just a bad hang over. Only this time Harry won't have the luxury of hanging out in his basement lab obsessively looking for a cure that didn't exist, while his place turned into a mildew farm. Life is rapidly moving on, he has a child now, he has to move with it or be forever left behind. Murphy's death would mean for the first time in his life, Harry is going to have to make some real choices and either grow as a man, or not. If Jim is up to the task of writing that it will make for one hell of a read.

[KurtinStGeorge]

I think we're going to see a fairly large death toll.  If the person I think is a traitor dies; look at my Peabody's partner thread, that person will probably take at least one of the wardens with him.  I'm guessing that at least two Senior Council members will die and one will be Ebenezer.  For the first time, I think Murphy is a good candidate to meet her end.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Yes,  but who is Harry going to bring back with him in Mirror, Mirror?

I wonder I’d we are going to see Harry make a choice between a vampire version of Susan or a version of Murphy who doesn’t love him?

Of course Jim will take the fork which causes Harry the most anguish. Which casualty in his life might he bring back? They would have to alive post Grave Peril, so not his mother, father, Carmichael or Kim Delaney. Will it be an old character like Kirby (poor Butters), or one or more of the freshly dead?

[Mira]

Yes,  but who is Harry going to bring back with him in Mirror, Mirror?

I wonder I’d we are going to see Harry make a choice between a vampire version of Susan or a version of Murphy who doesn’t love him?

Of course Jim will take the fork which causes Harry the most anguish. Which casualty in his life might he bring back? They would have to alive post Grave Peril, so not his mother, father, Carmichael or Kim Delaney. Will it be an old character like Kirby (poor Butters), or one or more of the freshly dead?

If he follows the laws of time travel, or at least any I've seen or read, he won't bring anyone back. Because if he does, it will alter the now and the future.  "The moving finger has written.."  Time is a river, you cannot put your finger in the same place twice.

[KurtinStGeorge]

Harry wouldn't bring back a Red Court vampire.  Yes, in this case it's Susan, but she really wouldn't be Susan any longer.  Plus, Harry would know what lay beneath the "new" Susan's exterior looks. 

This idea does make me wonder, what if Susan from escaped Bianca on her own and then joined the Order of St. Giles?  So she wouldn't have fully turned and would be fighting the alt-Red Court and totally hate alt-Harry.  I'm thinking that if this alt-Susan came to regular Harry's world she would always be a threat to be turned and restart the Red Court, but even if crossing over to Harry's world somehow cured her, that would mean giving up the fight against the Red Court in the Mirror Mirror world.  Making the decision to stay and fight the alt-Red Court would also tear Harry up.  It would be like losing Susan a second time. 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Harry could always bring her over and put her next to Thomas creating a vampire recovery wing. He knows however now there is a cure, the Mothers unravelling, he could swap it for something of equal value, such as the Black Staff. Alternatively the Grail might cure her (once he has got it back from Nicky) it is a purifier, and should be able to cleanse the taint, although I suspect only a virgin could use it. If only Harry knew a powerful virgin wizard.

Harry now has more options, than he used to have.

[Mira]

  First of all I don't think he can just bring someone from the other time line back with him.  It screws up both timelines.  If he starts messing with Susan, little Maggie may never have happened.  There are all kinds of unintended consequences, that is why one of the Seven Laws is against it.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Alternate worlds not from a different part in the timeline of his world.

[Arjan]

Alternative Harry was screwing up all these alternative worlds by removing Harry’s from them but not more than if somebody else had killed Harry and made his body disappear. Not like the messing with time screw up, not like swimming against the current.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

It may depend on how badly things are going in the alternate world with a less involved Harry.

[vultur]

Alternative Harry was screwing up all these alternative worlds by removing Harry’s from them but not more than if somebody else had killed Harry and made his body disappear. Not like the messing with time screw up, not like swimming against the current.

Which makes me wonder... are other Starborn going to step up in those worlds that lost their version of Harry? Or is their version of the BAT going to go wrong and destroy those universes?

[Arjan]

Which makes me wonder... are other Starborn going to step up in those worlds that lost their version of Harry? Or is their version of the BAT going to go wrong and destroy those universes?

Of course these universes are completely lost and are just now popping out of existence