What is Lara's problem? [PT Spoilers!]

[Gman]

I think it was Thomas. He was very likely threatened with them going after Justine. It may have been a fake Thomas killing the Svaltalf, escaping and real Thomas being clueless and captured by the Svaltalves while visiting Harry's place.

[Mira]

I think it was Thomas. He was very likely threatened with them going after Justine. It may have been a fake Thomas killing the Svaltalf, escaping and real Thomas being clueless and captured by the Svaltalves while visiting Harry's place.

  Now that is possible, but still a stretch I think.

Sure, but then why is she already not totally in control earlier in the book, before she gives energy to Thomas?

Because she feels guilty as hell because it was her who talked Thomas into pulling off the attempt in the first place.  That is why she called in the favors owed by the Winter Court before this went down as an insurance policy that Thomas could come out okay.. That is why she totally flipped out when she found out Harry had Alfred put Thomas on ice.

[vultur]

Because she feels guilty as hell because it was her who talked Thomas into pulling off the attempt in the first place.

I guess that's possible, but that still seems... overly emotion-driven, for Lara. She apparently intended to kill Thomas at one point in BR.

  That is why she called in the favors owed by the Winter Court before this went down as an insurance policy that Thomas could come out okay

It seems like Mab and Lara are talking to Harry about the favors while the attack is happening, or immediately thereafter. Would Lara have had time to find out what had happened and go contact Mab?

[Mira]

I guess that's possible, but that still seems... overly emotion-driven, for Lara. She apparently intended to kill Thomas at one point in BR.
It seems like Mab and Lara are talking to Harry about the favors while the attack is happening, or immediately thereafter. Would Lara have had time to find out what had happened and go contact Mab?

   Possibly while in progress. Yeah, I find it hard that she'd have the time as well. But here is the thing, even if she owes Lara favors, why would Mab jeopardize her Accords or the talks?   

[Bad Alias]

Lara not being 100% in control when everything is going well seems very unlike her.

When was everything going well? It also might have to do with her being sweet on Harry. Susan couldn't separate her "hungers" for Harry, and Thomas can't with Justine.

[vultur]

When was everything going well?

Well, she talks about not being in total control of her hunger at the talks, well before she gives most of her energy to Thomas. She should be well-fed then and therefore not have any control issues.

TC makes kind of a big deal about how some of the Whampires are highly controlled (like Lara) and some aren't (like Madeline).

It also might have to do with her being sweet on Harry. Susan couldn't separate her "hungers" for Harry, and Thomas can't with Justine.

This is possible... but that also seems new. Has Lara developed feelings for Harry since the last time we saw them interacting? If so, is that natural, or is it like the Luccio situation in SmF/TC?

But here is the thing, even if she owes Lara favors, why would Mab jeopardize her Accords or the talks?

Oh, I don't think she really did. I think Mab is "repaying" the favors in a way that benefits Mab/Winter.

I don't think the Accords are really being jeopardized. By my understanding, if Mab loans Harry to Lara to repay a favor, Harry is then acting as Lara's agent. So the White Court, not Winter, would be responsible to the svartalves under the Accords. Does Mab care if the White Court and the svartalves go to war? The White Council/Red Court war didn't seem to trouble her.

The talks, maybe, but I doubt the svartalves really have the power to ruin the talks. They could walk out, but everyone else could still come to an agreement. And the svartalves have already rejected an agreement with the Fomor (in "Bombshells") so I don't think they really have much negotiating power in this case. The svartalves are super-crafters, but not a very militant power.

So I don't think Mab is really risking all that much, and I think she already knew what Lara was going to do with the favors. (And I kind of think she arranged for Thomas to be put in a place where Harry could rescue him.)

[Mira]

So I don't think Mab is really risking all that much, and I think she already knew what Lara was going to do with the favors. (And I kind of think she arranged for Thomas to be put in a place where Harry could rescue him.)

Which says the whole thing is part of Mab's four dimensional chess match, much like Skin Game.. Give up the Grail, but her Knight gains the rest of the relics.. That is why Lara became so unglued on the island, she realized she and Thomas had been set up and she thought Harry was in on it.

[vultur]

Which says the whole thing is part of Mab's four dimensional chess match, much like Skin Game.. Give up the Grail, but her Knight gains the rest of the relics.. That is why Lara became so unglued on the island, she realized she and Thomas had been set up and she thought Harry was in on it.

I basically agree.

My question is more, is it just Lara's realization, or has she actually been mind-manipulated?

She seems noticeably more emotional/less controlled in this book than in previous appearances (even before they arrive on Demonreach). But there could be other reasons for that (maybe Justine's pregnancy has larger implications for the White Court than we realize; maybe she really is fighting a genuine attraction to Harry. Who knows.)

[BrainFireBob]

My guess is the first favor is that she gets Harry once Mab is done with him. So she's toying with her food- the true love doesn't matter, etc.


Then Harry snags Thomas. No Harry, no Thomas. And she's out of favors.

[Arjan]

My guess is the first favor is that she gets Harry once Mab is done with him. So she's toying with ger food- the true love doesn't matter, etc.


Then Harry snags Thomas. No Harry, no Thomas. And she's out of favors.

And now she has to protect Harry. Harry did not see that coming but Mab probably did 

[Mira]

And now she has to protect Harry. Harry did not see that coming but Mab probably did 

Yes, but none of this is getting to the bottom of all of this in the first place.. What was the motivation behind Thomas suddenly turning into an assassin?

[Dina]

My guess is the first favor is that she gets Harry once Mab is done with him. So she's toying with her food- the true love doesn't matter, etc.


Then Harry snags Thomas. No Harry, no Thomas. And she's out of favors.

I don't think Mab can "give" Harry to Lara, so I still believe the first favor is something different.

[vultur]

Yes, but none of this is getting to the bottom of all of this in the first place.. What was the motivation behind Thomas suddenly turning into an assassin?

In chapter one, after Thomas tells Harry about the pregnancy, Harry says he shouldn't ignore/hide/not talk about the vampire side of his nature. Thomas then says:

"Probably. I have a solution in mind." he said. "I'll work on it. Good enough?"

A solution to what? Justine surviving the pregnancy? Or, given the context, maybe a way to get rid of the Hunger?

I think Thomas made some kind of supernatural deal and his attack was his side of it. (And killing Etri wasn't necessarily the real goal - it could have been to disrupt the talks, or to kill Austri, or even specifically to distract Harry and/or Lara and Freydis from something else happening.)

Given Mab's planning/scheming capacities, I think she knows what Lara is going to use the favors for and expects to get something out of it. So maybe Thomas' action helped Winter. (Austri was Nemfected? Mab needs to distract Harry from something that she's doing that would get him killed intervening?)

That doesn't necessarily mean Thomas made a deal with Mab, though it could. It could be somebody else but Mab knows about it and is manipulating it to work out in her favor.

[vultur]

My guess is the first favor is that she gets Harry once Mab is done with him.

Mab's never going to be done with him while Harry lives, IMO. (At least not by choice: I don't expect Mab to survive the series.) Mab made a really big deal out of him becoming Winter Knight for a reason.

I mean, maybe after the BAT, but I kind of doubt it.

And I don't think that would work out very well for Lara anyway. Even if Harry was unable to defend himself because of the Faerie favor rules, killing or enslaving Harry would probably invite a lot of revenge. At the very least, it draws her into conflict with Thomas; at worst, Eb drops a satellite/meteor/etc on her.

Lara's smart enough not to eat people who have friends/family powerful enough to kill her.

[Mira]

In chapter one, after Thomas tells Harry about the pregnancy, Harry says he shouldn't ignore/hide/not talk about the vampire side of his nature. Thomas then says:."Probably. I have a solution in mind." he said. "I'll work on it. Good enough?"

1] He has already made a bargain with someone who can save Justine from the Hunger.
2] He is going to talk her into aborting..
3] He has no solution, but he wanted to placate Harry and shut him up because the subject was
too painful for him.