Peace Talks - What did you like? What didn't you like? What were you expecting?

[Dina]

I will put here a variation of what I posted in another thread ALL SPOILERS!!

I just have finished reading it. I liked it a lot even when I am very sad. I don't like what is happening with Thomas, or Lara for that matters. She is one of my favorite frenemies too 
In my opinions, the first chapters seemed...disjointed. Like different postcards placed in the same album, no links between them. I commented a few things in specific threads about each of the sample chapters but only a few more things:
In the first chapter Harry sees giant footprints...and does nothing. Tells nothing to anyone. He does not ask Bonea. He does not ask Bob (when he visited Butters).
Apparently, he and McCoy not tell anyone about an outsider attacking them
He does not ask Bob for the sneezing either. I mean, he asks Butters, but he does not ask him to ask Bob. Not even the paranet!
Lara was described twice with very few chapters in between. And we are already familiar with her, so it was boring. There are other things I found wordy as the others say, but for some reason Lara's description were the more annoying.
Ramirez placed an ink dot in Harry's waist...long before Harry was hurt and Butters do a hard cleaning of Harry's hands. How did the dot survived?
Lastly, Ramirez acted much more suspicious in the "ambush" than at the party, which was weird.
And the Peace Talks never actually began, which was disappointing. I was expecting some clever exchanges and things like that.

I did love many things, mostly all the emotion, the fact that Harry truly planned for Maggie's future, the fighting scenes, the heist, Harry in the island. I am sad for him and specially because I feel that both Lara and Thomas will be angry at him after all the Titan thing is finished (assuming they survive). And that is sad, they should be grateful. And I like that I am not sure what is going on with police and feds.

I suspect Thomas had another reason than Justine. Perhaps it was protecting Harry. Or something thralled him to do that so Harry will need to do what he did.

Also, I think Harry needs to have the three Swords together, crossing the streams, for saying something. That would probably defeat or weaken the Titan, long enough for the imprisonment.

Of course, we all suspect Merlin is the sleeping prisoner, right? And he will be with Mab?

Lastly,  I've been wondering if Fidelacchius will be able to cut the demon inside Thomas (improbable) or Justine's baby (as it won't hurt the human but the monster).

[KurtinStGeorge]

I didn't hate the book we got.  A lot of the banter was still fun.  I suppose I most enjoyed the scenes with Harry and Maggie.  Though I wish we got to hear a little more from Bonea.

I want to address one criticism I initially agreed with, but I'm having a change of heart on, and that has to do with Butters suddenly complicated love life.  The criticism is that the ménage ŕ trois doesn't feel earned; that it's something tacked on by Jim to make Butters more studly.  I initially agreed with this assessment; and it might be true, but after a reread I found that Butters wasn't really anger stronger.  He tells Harry, "I don't know how this happened."  Then he says "Don't screw this up for me."  If Butters love life was going to be upended because Harry talked to their mutual friends about it, Butters relationship isn't that strong to begin with.  I have a feeling that Jim is setting something up here.  One of the Denarians is trying a different way to get to one of the knights.  If I'm right then Butters situation will make more sense.  However, that's a WAG I don't want to go into detail about right now.

More than one person has said something like, "A book titled Peace Talks should have some actual; you know, peace talks in them."  I agree, but for a specific reason.  If you recall back when you read the first three Dresden Files books, there were was a fair amount of foreshadowing about the White Council, but we didn't get to see them as an organization, how they worked and what the leadership thought of Harry, until the fourth book Summer Knight.  When that happened it opened up the wider magical world for the series.  I was hoping we would get something similar with this book, only this time we would witness how the different powers dealt with each other, in an official capacity.  At least until all hell would break loose.  Plus, I was hoping there would be some surprises.  Characters like Drakul that we've only heard about, maybe the Eebs would show up representing a new Red Court; which looks less likely now, or Mavra would show up representing the Black Court. 

There were also little things that felt off to me.  The first night of the talks at the dinner, the Fomor didn't show up, but no one mentioned it or asked why they were absent.  I would have thought Harry would have picked up on they're absence and asked the question.  Yes, the next day we get an apology for the Fomor being late, but shouldn't it have come earlier?

That's a nit pick.  My real issue is with Harry.  At no point does he act like the detective that he used to be.  I get that everything is happening pretty fast but he has time to talk with Karen.  It's said the boat trip to Demonreach island takes about an hour.  There was space for Harry to wonder why Mab and Lara are working on together.  Is Mab just balancing scales by working with Lara because she Marcon'e main rival or was it something else?  Is Vadderung backing Lara or is her hiring the Valkyrie just a business arrangement?  These are just a couple of questions Harry might have mused about even if he didn't know if they were relevant to the current situation with Thomas. 

I'll admit that part of my issue is that I was hoping we would get a fun and challenging mystery for Harry to unravel, mixed in with all the political machinations of the talks.  However, what we have received doesn't feel fun to me, at least not yet.  The plot line with Thomas just feels sad and depressing.  Even breaking Thomas out of jail wasn't that fun; other than Freydis sex illusion hologram of Harry and Lara, which should make things interesting for Harry in the next book, but not so much in this one.  Add to that, the battle with the Corner Hounds wasn't that good, IMO.  For example, I think the fight with the Octokongs in Skin Game was much more exiting.

So far I'd give what we got a C -, but I hope the pay off in Battle Ground will be worthwhile.  At least we don't have that long to wait.   

Lastly,  I've been wondering if Fidelacchius will be able to cut the demon inside Thomas (improbable) or Justine's baby (as it won't hurt the human but the monster).

I've been wondering if Fidelacchius will be able to cut through Nicodemus' noose, should Nic ever try to pull the same trick with Butters that he used on Murphy.  I suspect the noose can't be damaged while Nic's wearing it, but if he asks for mercy and takes it off; and he puts down his coin, the noose might loose whatever protections it has.

[Snark Knight]

Of course we don't have answers about Thomas. Again, this is only half a book. I can also understand why the spartalf don't questioned Thomas. Firstly, it does not matter much. Like it or not, Thomas has drew blood and retribution is unavoidable. Secondly, it is a stressful time.

I'm not expecting an answer in part 1 of 2.  I do find it odd that Harry didn't even start laying any groundwork to an investigation. He is a private detective, after all.

[Dina]

Frankly, the only thing that bothers me about Butters' arrangements is the moment that Harry thinks to himself that he does not know what to think. Be an adult Harry, those three are adults and what they do in private is not your damn business (I was proud of his initial answer at Butters' place, I just did not like his inner thoughts later, when talking with Karen). But still, I understand Harry is an old fashioned guy. I just wish Murphy had not been so flustered for a woman hitting on her.

Kurtis, I loved the fight with the hound. It is one of my favorites in the whole serious. So I guess each ones has their cup of tea.

And at some point Harry is going to begin "detecting" and hopefully he will discover what happened with Thomas.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Harry expected this of Thomas and made fun of him for it , he certainly didn’t expect it of Butters, it left him rather non-plussed and then he himself was offered a similar arrangement with Freydis and Murphy.

Somewhere if you listen very carefully,  you can hear Carlos screaming “it’s not fair!!!”

[huangjimmy108]

I'm not expecting an answer in part 1 of 2.  I do find it odd that Harry didn't even start laying any groundwork to an investigation. He is a private detective, after all.

Because saving Thomas is more important to Harry compare to knowing who is behind it. Harry himself notice that what happened to Thomas is a distraction, which meant trying to investigate is exactly what the enemy wanted Harry to do.

Harry also has task from Mab and from the white council which occupy his time and attention in which failure could mean his death. Both rationally and emotionally, Harry's action to leave the mystery behind and focus on the rescue is a correct response in my opinion. Harry simply don't have the time and resources to investigate the matter, not even just a preliminary one. There are more important and urgent issue demanding his attention. As long as Thomas is still alive, Harry could investigate later.

[Bad Alias]

Frankly, the only thing that bothers me about Butters' arrangements is the moment that Harry thinks to himself that he does not know what to think.

I totally get not knowing what to think, especially from Harry's "traditional" perspective.

Part of it is that it's Butters, who had a slightly better sex life than Harry in WN. He didn't exactly go from zero to sixty, but Butters isn't ever described as anything approaching what one would think of as someone ending up in his situation. (His situation being a guy in a menage a trois with a bombshell and another girl who is, at least, not unattractive).

Another part has been mentioned that because Butters didn't know how it happened, there's a good chance that Butters is going to end up the odd man out. Three people in a relationship often ends up with someone believing they were betrayed.

And finally, I don't think Dresden can wrap his head around a long term romantic relationship involving three people. Marci is different than the girls Justine brings over because Marci is going to be around regardless of what's happening in Butters bedroom.

[Dina]

I see no reason for Jim to include that particular moment of Harry's thoughts, still getting attention over that moment. And Butters has always being described as someone interesting for a nerd girl. The fact that the female Alphas are all bombshells does not change that. But that is not my point. I totally understand that Harry is surprised. That is perfectly fine. And clearly it is not something Harry himself would do. Of course. But "not knowing what to think"? Well, think that is not your business, Harry! What else is "to think"?

[Bad Alias]

And Butters has always being described as someone interesting for a nerd girl.

I have to admit that I'm often flummoxed by some things women find attractive, but I imagine Dresden and most men are too. We typically do not expect short, skinny, older, professionally limited, polka enthusiasts to end up in the situation Harry finds Butters in.

The fact that the female Alphas are all bombshells does not change that.

Not accusing you of it, but this sort of observation, turned to a criticism, is my biggest pet peeve criticism of Dresden Files. So many people complain vigorously about how every woman in the Dresden Files is sooo hot and beautiful. They're not. Out of the Alphas, only Andy is described as clearly a bombshell.* The others are described as physically fit, which is just one aspect of what many define as hot or beautiful. "Butterface" isn't considered a compliment. I kind of get the impression that Georgia's not good looking. The adjective I remember most when it comes to Marci is "mousy." Most women, excluding the supernaturally attractive ones, are described as having an attractive feature or two. Very few are described as outright ugly. Probably just Meryl, and female BCV's if you want to include them as women. Most female characters are described with at least some terms that I doubt a woman would appreciate hearing about herself. I don't think any of the old lady's are described as what most would describe as attractive. (Older wizards, the Mothers, Mama Murphy, matronly desk sergeant who disapproves of Dresden's appearance).

If I ever get ambitious, I'm going to get every description of a female character and post them.

*Merriam Webster definition for context: a person who is the cause and object of sensational and usually widespread attention, excitement, or attraction
a blonde bombshell [=a glamorously attractive blonde woman]

But "not knowing what to think"? Well, think that is not your business, Harry! What else is "to think"?

People have opinions about other people's choices. It's why "I know it's not any of my business, but" and similar phrases are so common. Harry can't help but having thoughts about it. Instead of writing a couple of paragraphs starting with "two chicks at the same time" to "that's going to blow up in Butters' face" with everything in between, Jim wrote "not knowing what to think" because that get's across that Dresden has multiple conflicting thoughts on it.

[Dina]

Well, men are so limited 
I accept your comment about my words about the Alphas, perhaps they are not all bombshells. Anyway, that is not my point. My point is even if they were all bombshells, they are still RPG players and (probably) nerdy. So I perfectly see them attracted to clever, honest, brave and kind Butters. And after he became a Knight he won confidence, he trained, I am sure he is now quite hot even for conventional, action-movie standards.
Over the last part, we are not mind-reading a real person. Jim had no need to include that part of Harry thoughts.

[wildone654]

Of all the internal thoughts of a fictional character have been observing.... possible judgment on someone in a threesome doesn't even through a blip on the radar for me.

I mean we've seen Harry mull over sexual assault on multiple occasions. If we wanted to send the thought police after him, intolerance for multi-partner relationships would not be top on my list of concerns.....

Though I still find the whole thing as rather random and out of place personally, so perhaps I'm just sympathetic to Harry's not knowing what to think about it.

[morriswalters]

It isn't the sex, it's the why of it. What purpose does it have in the story? How does it move the plot forward.  Short answer.  It doesn't.  It's suppose to add the gravitas  a knight should have. It made sense with Thomas and it kind of makes sense with Freydis.  Thomas is an incubus, Murphy spars with revenants, Michael kills dragons, Sanya gave up a coin and is built like a tank, and Shiro was a Master with the blade. They had a back story that lent credence to their role. Butters plays polka with a one man band rig and has a weightless sword that can't kill people. So, male shorthand 101.

[Dina]

Of all the internal thoughts of a fictional character have been observing.... possible judgment on someone in a threesome doesn't even through a blip on the radar for me.

I mean we've seen Harry mull over sexual assault on multiple occasions. If we wanted to send the thought police after him, intolerance for multi-partner relationships would not be top on my list of concerns.....

Though I still find the whole thing as rather random and out of place personally, so perhaps I'm just sympathetic to Harry's not knowing what to think about it.

That is ironical, as I defended Harry's inner thoughts several times. I've seen a lot of criticism in this forum about Harry predatory thoughts. Heck, I believe a person I know (not a close one so I am not sure) stopped reading the series because those thoughts were a trigger for her. I was always against those criticisms, because his reactions made sense for a person in his position and Jim showing us that was a way to understand things about Harry, like the strength of the mantle. But I don't understand why Jim chose to show that particular piece of Harry's mind. It's sort of judgemental. His original reaction (aloud, when talking with Butters) had been great. Surprise, of course, but nothing else. But now it is as if JB was saying "Don't trust people who says something is all right, not their business, they are mentally criticizing your behavior". Now that I think about that, perhaps that is why that part bothers me so much, it makes Harry an hypocrite.

Edited:

It isn't the sex, it's the why of it. What purpose does it have in the story? How does it move the plot forward.  Short answer.  It doesn't.  It's suppose to add the gravitas  a knight should have. It made sense with Thomas and it kind of makes sense with Freydis.  Thomas is an incubus, Murphy spars with revenants, Michael kills dragons, Sanya gave up a coin and is built like a tank, and Shiro was a Master with the blade. They had a back story that lent credence to their role. Butters plays polka with a one man band rig and has a weightless sword that can't kill people. So, male shorthand 101.

I don't understand what you are saying here.

[morriswalters]

What does Butters having a menage a' trois do?  How does it move the story forward? It isn't sexy or titillating, it's wasted space in a book short on almost everything. He's trying very hard to give the character weight and I'm of the opinion that a fight would have served the purpose better. However I'll let it go.

[Mira]

What does Butters having a menage a' trois do?  How does it move the story forward? It isn't sexy or titillating, it's wasted space in a book short on almost everything. He's trying very hard to give the character weight and I'm of the opinion that a fight would have served the purpose better. However I'll let it go.

Exactly kind of like the conjuritis that Harry is suffering, what is the point?  Kind of funny, but really do we need comic relief that badly? Butters already had a hot girlfriend, does two make him appear more masculine? Or does he just like to watch? Which makes him what, weird or kinky?  It doesn't make him more brave, heroic, strong, or smart..  He was those things when he was still working for the county and went to an insane asylum rather than lie about his autopsy findings. That is why he earned a Holy Sword in the first place.  Underscoring that he has more than a light sabre in his pocket doesn't do much for him or us..