Outside PEACE TALKS SPOILERS

[Yuillegan]

So we learnt a few things about Outsiders and the Outside this book.

1. The Outside and Outer Night are the same place (at least to Harry). Harry tells the Hounds of Tindalos (Cornerhounds) to return to the Outer Night, and they are Outsiders he is banishing to the Outside.
This has long been speculated but now we have confirmation.

So why are the Red Court Elders called The Lords of the Outer Night? What exactly are they? What's the connection between the Outsiders and the Red Court?

2. We learn part of the reason the Law for not seeking knowledge from beyond the Outer Gates is due to the corruptive influence of the Outside tending to make mortals (and perhaps other beings) go mad. We learn that only Starborns (unique amongst mortals) are insulated from the effects. Harry himself speculates this is why Nemesis hasn't corrupted him. It also confirms by implication that mortals CAN be affected by Nemesis.

3. Harry also refers to the Outside as elemental chaos. In D&D Elemental Chaos is a sort of "sea" of spirit energy in which certain planes of existence dwell. It's opposite is the Astral Sea. It's the difference between Law and Chaos. Harry doesn't capitalise elemental chaos, which suggests he doesn't think of it as a specific place but rather a descriptor of the Outside. The Outside in the Dresden Files is far more similar to the Far Realm. But perhaps Jim is laying further clues.

4. We learnt that Outsiders often simply project themselves into multiple bodies, and this is why it's hard to even hurt them as the avatars they create often are not built to feel pain etc. However, starborns seem to be able to hurt them through their connection from the avatar to the source.

5. The Last Titan and the Fomor are somehow in league with the Outsiders...just like the Red Court.

[Vairelome]

Random thought--back during the Red Court War, the White Council figured out the Red Court-Outsider connection, and further, that the Red Court must also be working with one or more mortal practitioners, since (speculation?) it requires Mortal Free Will to summon Outsiders directly into the physical world.  It seems pretty evident that the Fomor have replaced the Red Court as the Outsiders' supernatural heavy hitter patsy group, but the appearance of the Cornerhounds/Hounds of Tindalos indicates that the mortal practitioner summoner patsy is still around (and in Chicago!) as well.  (...which means the original summoner during the Red Court War wasn't just Peabody, for example.)

[ClintACK]

The Outsiders seem to have always had lots of mortal practitioners. See: three full circles of ritual casters in Cold Days.

And although the White Council's official position denies it, we know they've got Cowl too.

And then there's the question of what the Fomor have been doing with all the minor mortal practitioners they've been gathering...

[Arjan]

And as bloodrites showed it is not that difficult to find a few practitioners and give them a ritual.

[Mira]

And as bloodrites showed it is not that difficult to find a few practitioners and give them a ritual.

  Well, there is always trouble when amateurs mess with the occult.   

[Yuillegan]

Indeed. But someone is clearly handing out rituals like girl scout cookies and I suspect that they are the kind of rituals that you really can't mess up without serious backlash. So if the Black Council is handing out these rituals, who are the suspects? Cowl and Kumori obviously. But the White Court clearly have the necessary information.

Yeah, whatever the Fomor are up to with mortal practitioners isn't good. They don't seem to be transforming them are using them as troops...yet. I wonder if it's like what the Naagloshii do, stealing magic (like that WOJ quote about how wizards can steal each others magic and the method is horrible).

Vairelome - I would say the Black Council are working with/manipulating each group and providing the Outsider support. The real question is why any group would submit to this. Ethniu hardly strikes me as someone willing to be controlled or even needing the help of others. I think Nemesis influence is the most likely cause, myself. And I suspect Ethniu is compromised (assuming she can be). She does fit the pattern of beings acting outside the normal pattern of activity, especially ones with an axe to grind (like Maeve or Aurora).

[Bad Alias]

I don't think everyone who starts messing around with Outsiders is an Outsider puppet. A lot of arrogant players probably think they can use the Outsiders to their own benefit. I'd further bet that most of them either end up puppets or get, at best, eaten.

We learned one more thing about Outsiders. They take you back Outside if they can. (This may just have been the corner hounds). And Eb has no idea what happens when they do.

[Yuillegan]

I suspect most feel that way when they start messing around with them...but Harry's comment about what happens when a mind touches the Outsider presence and how it sends people mad feels like exposition to the audience. In which case, any person who does have contact with the Outsiders who isn't protected eventually ends up corrupted. And yes, quite a few probably do get killed.

Indeed, why is it that the Cornerhounds take victims back to their own domain? I'd say almost no one knows what happens there (probably as the survivor rate is next to nothing, if not nil). I wonder even if Angels and such multi-verse beings know? I suspect only beings that have actually been Outside etc would really know...because Outside appears to be "outside" the multiverse.

In fact, I suspect that is the limit of Angels, beings with Intellectus etc. Just like Demonreach, they only can "know" what is in their domain. I suspect only humans and perhaps some Outsiders have the ability to learn things outside of their reality. Perhaps they sort of bring their own reality with them. It's a curious problem.

[Bad Alias]

(probably as the survivor rate is next to nothing, if not nil).

Or worse, the survivor rate is 100%. Either as in everlasting torment, or conversion into an Outsider.