Murphy

[Bad Alias]

If it is any consolation for her, if Harry rides in her car he knees are on his ears...  When my son, who is just too inches shorter than Harry tries to ride in my car, he put the seat practically in the back seat
and he still doesn't have enough room.

Back in high school and college I had a friend who was 7 feet tall. His parents were tall as well. They had to have trucks or suvs to fit. We were friends when having a gas guzzling suv was considered a shameful act by some for political reasons. (I'm not sure if that is still the case in many quarters, but I haven't heard it mentioned in a long time).

[Mira]

Back in high school and college I had a friend who was 7 feet tall. His parents were tall as well. They had to have trucks or suvs to fit. We were friends when having a gas guzzling suv was considered a shameful act by some for political reasons. (I'm not sure if that is still the case in many quarters, but I haven't heard it mentioned in a long time).

I own a Honda Element, it is a tight fit for him.. My brother who was six foot seven could fit in the front of an old Beetle but since he didn't drive I don't know if it would work out behind the wheel.  I do remember an old Wilt Chamberlain commercial for V.W.s  the caption read,  "They said it couldn't be done, and it couldn't."  At seven foot something, old Wilt the Stilt couldn't fit in a V.W.  My son
drives a pick up and they also own an SUV, mainly because they have three babies under four years of age.

[huangjimmy108]

   Okay, the big thing about Murphy has always been what a smart fighter she is.  That her advice
to Harry has always been smart, she is called a warrior..  Well, maybe not so much.. 

In Skin Game she went by her rules and not those of the Sword, broke it and got herself pretty
broken.  Then as now, perhaps love has fried her brain a bit?  What I am talking about is on
the final couple of pages of Peace Talks on the boat.  She is in so much pain she says she can
hardly move.  Harry tells her that a good warrior knows when it is best to avoid a fight.  He suggests
that there are a group of people, the paranetters who are going to be very scared and need wise
council and protecting, that they need her.  She objects to that says she won't sit out this fight, and insists that she is going to join him in the fighting.  Harry doesn't argue the point, because he knows he cannot change her.. However what she is doing isn't really brave, it certainly isn't smart, it is very selfish and could get her killed, more to the point get Harry killed because he now cannot fully concentrate on the enemy, he has to worry about her.. Oh I know the argument, Murphy has always taken care of herself and Harry too.. But now the odds are that she cannot and there are people who do need her, especially when things get really hairy.   So this kills the idea that if she never improves physically she will be happy running the show from behind a desk.  No, she won't.  She is good at
fighting, and perhaps it is simply a matter of her that love has once again addled her brain, but she is no warrior, and she is very selfish..  This is may be heavy foreshadowing of her doom..

Selfish? Idiotic? Can get her killed? Hell yes. The question is what wouldn't?

Honestly speaking, Murphy is tied to Harry now. If Harry goes down for some reason I doubt Murphy could survive for long. Well. unless she dug a hole at demonreach island and hide there for all her life. Which is probably is worse than death for her.

Anyway, this is her choice and I can't even really say that it is wrong. You see, Harry's idea to just stash Murphy in demonreach for her safety is exactly the kind of choice motivated by the same mentality of Ebenezar Mckoy. The same mentality Harry openly despise in front of his own grandfather. Harry is using double standard here, and I can't blame him much.

It is the mentality that make Susan hide Maggi's birth from Harry. The same mentality which made Ebenezar abandoned Harry in an orphanage after his father's death. The same mentality which made Harry choose to commit suicide in changes and so on. It is what cause EB anger when he saw Maggi living with Harry openly.

Is EB wrong? Honestly, I don't know. I do know that Harry has no stone to throw against Murphy when she choose to go with Harry to battle despite of her injuries. Why? Because under the same circumstances, Harry would have made the same choice. Murphy ask Harry the same question and Harry has no answer. Those two are the same kind of person. 

[Arjan]

Selfish? Idiotic? Can get her killed? Hell yes. The question is what wouldn't?

Honestly speaking, Murphy is tied to Harry now. If Harry goes down for some reason I doubt Murphy could survive for long. Well. unless she dug a hole at demonreach island and hide there for all her life. Which is probably is worse than death for her.

Anyway, this is her choice and I can't even really say that it is wrong. You see, Harry's idea to just stash Murphy in demonreach for her safety is exactly the kind of choice motivated by the same mentality of Ebenezar Mckoy. The same mentality Harry openly despise in front of his own grandfather. Harry is using double standard here, and I can't blame him much.

It is the mentality that make Susan hide Maggi's birth from Harry. The same mentality which made Ebenezar abandoned Harry in an orphanage after his father's death. The same mentality which made Harry choose to commit suicide in changes and so on. It is what cause EB anger when he saw Maggi living with Harry openly.

Is EB wrong? Honestly, I don't know. I do know that Harry has no stone to throw against Murphy when she choose to go with Harry to battle despite of her injuries. Why? Because under the same circumstances, Harry would have made the same choice. Murphy ask Harry the same question and Harry has no answer. Those two are the same kind of person.

Some choices are not right or wrong, they are based on different priorities and risk acceptance.

[huangjimmy108]

Some choices are not right or wrong, they are based on different priorities and risk acceptance.

You also need Luck or pray for TWG's blessings. If your luck is rotten any choice would just end in tears. especially these days.

Things has gone so bad, at this rate, any intelligence, logic, power, skill or talent is not as practical as luck. As for TWG's blessing, perhaps TWG would have an easier time helping a mortal if that mortal based their choices on positive things like love, courage and hope instead of making choice based on paranoya, fear and despair.

[Mira]

Anyway, this is her choice and I can't even really say that it is wrong. You see, Harry's idea to just stash Murphy in demonreach for her safety is exactly the kind of choice motivated by the same mentality of Ebenezar Mckoy. The same mentality Harry openly despise in front of his own grandfather. Harry is using double standard here, and I can't blame him much.

Actually he never suggested that, she suggested that he was thinking of doing that.  He suggested
she watch over the paranetters, who were at Mac's and perhaps some other places.  Who when it hits the fan will be in real danger would need a clear head and a smart fighter.   Harry isn't wrong, I know it hurts Murphy's ego, but he isn't wrong. 

[Arjan]

Actually he never suggested that, she suggested that he was thinking of doing that.  He suggested
she watch over the paranetters, who were at Mac's and perhaps some other places.  Who when it hits the fan will be in real danger would need a clear head and a smart fighter.   Harry isn't wrong, I know it hurts Murphy's ego, but he isn't wrong.

And Murphy is not wrong either.

[Mira]

Peace Talks page 315

She shrugged one shoulder.  Her voice was heavy and tired.  "Everything hurts.  But I can move some."
   "Maybe you should take shelter," I said.  "The Paranetters are going to head for Mac's place.  They'll need someone to keep a cool head and a sharp watch."
  She snorted.  "You think I cannot handle myself?'
   "Don't," I said quietly.  "I was ready to take you with me into literal Hell and you know it.  Every warrior gets hurt.  Has limits.  There's no shame in acknowledging that."
   She was quiet for a moment.  Then she asked, "If you were hurt, would you sit this one out?"

This is why I started this thread in the first place, that bit sticks out to me.  While the answer from Harry most likely would be, no.  It would be just as stupid and egocentric if he did, even though as a wizard he has a lot more tools even injured than she does, a mere vanilla mortal.  Harry goes on to
acknowledge that there is no way he can stop her, that is who she is, but sadly most likely it will also get her killed.  Now maybe her death will make a difference, maybe there will be some miracle she will get cured and kick ass or she will ride off to the tune of the Ride of the Valkyrie from the Ring Cycle after she becomes a bloody grease spot..  Or maybe not so much..   So if the paranet gets wiped out because when the chips were down no one was there for them, it's okay because well, Murphy didn't want to sit it out..

"Every warrior gets hurt.  Has limits.  There's no shame in acknowledging that."

  Nor is there shame in standing a post, with her skills considering her current limitations, where she can do the most good..

And Murphy is not wrong either.

In this case, yes, she is...  The answer is against what is coming?  No, she cannot handle herself, from her questions to Harry she has no clue.  She cannot be reasoned with, Harry knows this, and now has the added weight of knowing he is going to lose her either way..

[Bad Alias]

It seems like Murphy's decision is to be in the thick of it. She's just a liability in such a situation. Even being a driver would be a huge liability. If a car gets stuck, it's a death trap. Murphy doesn't have a lot of mobility. An overwatch position has the same problems if she needs to change positions. She really needs to be in REMF position.

[huangjimmy108]

Peace Talks page 315

This is why I started this thread in the first place, that bit sticks out to me.  While the answer from Harry most likely would be, no.  It would be just as stupid and egocentric if he did, even though as a wizard he has a lot more tools even injured than she does, a mere vanilla mortal.  Harry goes on to
acknowledge that there is no way he can stop her, that is who she is, but sadly most likely it will also get her killed.  Now maybe her death will make a difference, maybe there will be some miracle she will get cured and kick ass or she will ride off to the tune of the Ride of the Valkyrie from the Ring Cycle after she becomes a bloody grease spot..  Or maybe not so much..   So if the paranet gets wiped out because when the chips were down no one was there for them, it's okay because well, Murphy didn't want to sit it out..  Nor is there shame in standing a post, with her skills considering her current limitations, where she can do the most good..
In this case, yes, she is...  The answer is against what is coming?  No, she cannot handle herself, from her questions to Harry she has no clue.  She cannot be reasoned with, Harry knows this, and now has the added weight of knowing he is going to lose her either way..

Harry's abilities is a non issue here. Even if Harry becomes a vanilla and he is injured, it is likely that Harry will still choose to go to battle himself regardless. Which is the same as Murphy's choice. The guy just don't know how to give up. You need to cripple him or put Harry into a coma if you want him to stop going.

We are facing a supernatural army led by a freaking Titan here. If a disaster that could wiped out the paranet really appears, Murphy being there will just be buying soysauce. Not much better than if she went with Harry anyway. Besides, facing the likes of Ethniu, Murphy is an ant and Harry is just a slightly bigger ant. The enemy is so strong, the power difference between Harry and Murphy becomes insignificant.

Things are so chaotic right now, nobody could be certain what is the right choice. If your luck is bad, any road could end up in death.

Under such circumstances, following your heart and doing what you really want is not a bad choice at all. At least one won't die in regret afterwards even if things end up in tragedy. Besides, who knows? Miracle could happened.

[Mira]

It seems like Murphy's decision is to be in the thick of it. She's just a liability in such a situation. Even being a driver would be a huge liability. If a car gets stuck, it's a death trap. Murphy doesn't have a lot of mobility. An overwatch position has the same problems if she needs to change positions. She really needs to be in REMF position.

Yes, this isn't about her and her desires..  Yes, I get it she wants to fight for her city, but in her condition she is more apt to get other people also fighting for her city killed or injured.  And there is a task she can do in her present state, protect a group that need protecting and if it really hits the fan she will get all the fighting she can handle.

Under such circumstances, following your heart and doing what you really want is not a bad choice at all. At least one won't die in regret afterwards even if things end up in tragedy. Besides, who knows? Miracle could happened.

It is, if it gets others killed... No regrets?  Um if they win and some people die because she was in a place she had no business being in following her heart, you can bet she will have LOTS of regrets, the kind that do not go away if she has any conscience at all.

[ClintACK]

We seem to be making a lot of assumptions about what role Murphy will insist on having in Battle Ground.

She didn't insist on being part of the infiltration team in Peace Talks, just on being there to back Harry up rather than leaving him alone with the Whamps. Freydis thought, like a lot of you, that she was a handicap rather than an asset. Murphy proved her wrong.

Let's give her a chance to make some reasonable decisions about what role she can carry out -- with one notable exception in Skin Game, where she got played by Nico, she's been doing a good job about making that call for a dozen books or so.

[Arjan]

There is no reason to think she gets others killed besides herself. Not if we look at everything that happened until now. She handled things she could handle and Harry was not protecting her more than normal. Probably less than normal. She used her brain. Her bringing danger to other people than herself is not shown in the text once.

[huangjimmy108]

There is no reason to think she gets others killed besides herself. Not if we look at everything that happened until now. She handled things she could handle and Harry was not protecting her more than normal. Probably less than normal. She used her brain. Her bringing danger to other people than herself is not shown in the text once.

Besides, how do you know if something could get someone killed and another thing would not? This is war, not a simulation game. We also knowthe the result of taking more responsibility than your power could handle. That is arrogance of the highest degree. Even Harry, a wizard with far greater power than most,  has been warned by Michael in SG not to take such a burden on himself. How could we expect Murphy to carry the same burden?

Power equal responsibility. The problem is, Murphy has very little power to begin with.  and now that she is no longer an officer and injured to boot, she has even less. This meant that she has very little responsibility. Almost none in fact. It is not fair to place the safety of the entire paranet or any other person upon her. She might carry this burden in the past. She once a officer of the law and she was once a capable fighter, but that is no more.

She is no longer an officer. No longer a KoTC candidate. No need to keep the holy swords safe. She is free to do what she wants to do now. All of ther bonds is gone. No duty, no concern, only her love remains.

PS: This is a single minded Murphy with all limiters off...
Why do I get the chills when I wrote this?
Must be just my imagination.

[Mira]

Power equal responsibility. The problem is, Murphy has very little power to begin with.  and now that she is no longer an officer and injured to boot, she has even less. This meant that she has very little responsibility. Almost none in fact. It is not fair to place the safety of the entire paranet or any other person upon her. She might carry this burden in the past. She once a officer of the law and she was once a capable fighter, but that is no more.

Then maybe she should sit this one out if what you say is true..  Because her first response to Harry when he suggested it, was paraphrasing that she was capable "of handling herself."  Well, if she is, then lending her wisdom and protective instincts to the paranet would be perfect.