Ebenezar and Harry (peace talks spoilers)

[Cadmium]

““Sure,” River said. “But I taught him. And he’s just about gotten to the end of his path.” He looked uncomfortable. “Lot of the wizards who matter are near the end. Hanging on hard.””

— Peace Talks (Dresden Files Book 16) by Jim Butcher
https://a.co/5qcsjZa

I think this is a clear indication that Eb is reaching the end of his path.  My personal feeling is that the black staff is getting to him and he’s hanging on because he can’t trust anyone else to take it up. 

I guess it could be a reference members of the senior council in general.  Ancient Mai, or Martha Liberty in particular.

[Grifter]

It does make you wonder if a lot of Council talent was culled in the Kemmler wars, followed by the Dresden wars, leaving only the most powerful (and by default aged) wizards capable of surviving.  Was it all strategy to weaken them across a century in preparation for the BAT events?

[Cadmium]

Good point.  Aside from Morgan how many wizards have ween seen between 50 and 150 yards old

[Second Aristh]

Luccio is the closest we know to that range, I think.  It's hard to place Steed's age, though.

[vultur]

I guess it could be a reference members of the senior council in general.  Ancient Mai, or Martha Liberty in particular.

I think it's most of the Senior Council - Eb, the Merlin, Listens-to-Wind, Ancient Mai, the Gatekeeper at least.

Eb and the Merlin are the same age, so if Eb is fading, the Merlin should be too. River Shoulders seems to imply L-t-W's time is running out. Ancient Mai is even older. The Gatekeeper is way older and has presumably been 'cheating' via time dilation and stuff... maybe trying to hang on long enough for a replacement Starborn to be ready to take over the role?

Luccio is the closest we know to that range, I think.  It's hard to place Steed's age, though.

Luccio is a bit over 200; she was growing up at the time of the War of 1812.

Cristos might not be that much older; he was suspiciously young for the Senior Council, shouldn't really have been considered in normal circumstances, and LaFortier was 279 (Eb and the Merlin are around 300) - so Cristos is probably in the lower half of his 200s.

But yeah, I don't think we have ages actually stated for any wizards in the 50-150 range. I'd kind of think the 'old guard' pre-Vampire-War Wardens (e.g. Steed/Chandler and Yoshimo) are largely in that age range, but we don't know.

[Second Aristh]

Yoshimo was one of the baby wardens in DB, she's younger than Harry. 

Chandler is the only named wizard I can think of that might be closer to the 50-150 range than Luccio (excluding Harry), but mostly because we don't have a firm age for him.  Ancient Mai has a messenger apprentice, but we don't really have much on him.

[huangjimmy108]

He gets old. Sometimes dementia can cause anger and agression

He is old. He is also afraid because the council wants to boot Harry out and Harry being Harry really making the council's job easy. When EB try to persuade Harry to be in the straight and narrow, Harry defy him. More than that, Harry throw all of EB bad choices in his face.

Wizardkind in general are prideful creatures and the older they are the more prideful and stubborn they become. Paranoid too.

Do you think all of the above is enough to explain why EB acted the way he did in PT?

[Cadmium]

I think Morgan is the exception that proves the rule.  I think he was approaching 100 wasn’t he?

But he was tough as hell and more paranoid than all the rest.

[KurtinStGeorge]

There does seem to be a foreshadowing for the "changing of the guard" if you will.  Suddenly older wizards of the Senior Council were old but very powerful, suddenly they seem fragile.  Rivershoulders pointed out to Harry that Listens to Wind didn't have long for this world.  I will cry
when he leaves, he is one of my favorites.  If any of you saw the movie "Little Big Man," one of the stars was a Native American actor named Chief Dan George, he was elderly, strong, and came off as very wise.  When I read about Listens to Wind, that is who I picture.

"Changing of the guard" But to whom?  Other than Klaus the Toy maker and a few of the older wardens, only one of whom we know by name, there's not a lot of characters we know.  I can't remember the older warden's name but it was mentioned in Turn Coat, Swenson or something similar.  Maybe Luccio might in line for a promotion to the Senior Council.

Chief Dan George was also in the Clint Eastwood movie, "The Outlaw Josie Wales."  He was a very good actor.  I didn't picture Listens to Wind looking like him, but I always heard his voice whenever I read LTW's dialog. 

I think there are outside forces working against Eb's emotional well-being.  I speculated before that Mouse's siblings may be in play against Eb.  Then there are the outside forces that recently went up against Eb.  Peace Talks has that going up against Outsiders leaves a mark on ones psyche except if you are a starborn.  It could be that Eb's fight against the cornerhounds left him open to further emotional conflict.  I think the black council worked indirectly to divide Harry from Eb.

Yea, Eb got buried under the cornerhounds.  Something as simple as that might have made him vulnerable to becoming nemfected.  There's one Walker we haven't seen yet.  It may be able to disguise itself to look like another Outsider or simply remain invisible.  So Eb's already huge anger issues with the Red Court get dialed up to eleven.  He even tries to save Harry by using lethal magic against him.  Eb could be losing it, but it could be that he was pushed into losing control. 

It does make you wonder if a lot of Council talent was culled in the Kemmler wars, followed by the Dresden wars, leaving only the most powerful (and by default aged) wizards capable of surviving.  Was it all strategy to weaken them across a century in preparation for the BAT events?

That makes sense.  Someone like Cowl might think like that.

[Vanderboom]

Another thing that could be effecting Eb is the use of the Black Staff over time.

From changes we know it pulses with a black energy.  Also, if it is Mother Winter's walking stick, we can assume that it is not meant for humans.  EB to me is showing impulse control similar to Harry ever since take up the winter mantle.

Anyone agree?

I do! It's clear that Ebenezer and Harry are foils for each other, so the parallels make sense, as do the different choices. I also think that the Blackstaff influence, combined with the Peabody damage, might make it increasingly difficult for Ebenezer to control his emotions.

[Arjan]

He is old. He is also afraid because the council wants to boot Harry out and Harry being Harry really making the council's job easy. When EB try to persuade Harry to be in the straight and narrow, Harry defy him. More than that, Harry throw all of EB bad choices in his face.

Wizardkind in general are prideful creatures and the older they are the more prideful and stubborn they become. Paranoid too.

Do you think all of the above is enough to explain why EB acted the way he did in PT?

He has been angry at Harry for not following his lead in the past most notably in changes and at that time they only communicated via stones and he could not have used direct violence.

So it is in character but the lack of control is accelerated and already demonstrated in the sample chapters. So nothing out of character but I do think the brakes are getting weaker. That can also happen when you get old.

[toodeep]

Eb is certainly a bossy guy, but this uncontrollable rage against the white court seems new and deux ex machina in my opinion.  We know He shouldn't be having such rage issues because:
1.  When Harry soulgazed him he saw a big steady oak, not something that readily loses itself to rages and angers.
2.  One of the key things he taught Harry was how to deal with his anger, so the idea that he is such a total fail at it here is out of character
3.  He was trusted by the previous black staff wielder enough to be given the blackstaff.  You don't give permission to kill at will to someone who has those kind of rage issues.
4.  He obviously didn't have these rage issues when he sat down at a friggin dinner party with his daughter, Papa Raith, and a member of the red court.  Sure, he said no to their proposal, but he was polite and his own friggin daughter thought there was a chance he would say yes.  If he had had these issues then there would have been no way she would have even tried inviting him to that dinner.

[BrainFireBob]

Harry is letting Thomas around Maggie unsupervised.

Y'know, the girl named for Eb's own daughter?

Thomas is defiant and comfortable in Harry's home.

I think Eb's supposed to have been *stewing* about Thomas and whatever "hold" he had on Harry. He may have had a similar confrontation with his Maggie, and she chose Papa Raith. Now here's Harry doing the same.

From Eb's perspective: Harry has, in this book and Changes, tossed in his face a "Let the world burn, then!" attitude when it comes to family. His defiant comments about the foster system initially would have seemed to be purely about his daughter. Eb, an old and wise man who cares deeply about Harry, realizes that Harry is including Thomas, *similarly abandoned by their shared mother*, under that defensive blind spot. Harry will choose Thomas over the Council, and the consequences be damned.

[Bad Alias]

"Changing of the guard" But to whom?

I made a similar point. One thing is that maybe the Council won't be a gerontocracy anymore. Rashid has said that Harry will challenge the Council. Cristos has already laid the groundwork for ignoring the tradition of selecting the Senior Council on a gerotocratic basis. We've been repeatedly told that the young vastly outnumber the old because of the explosive population growth of the last century. A lot of those kids end up as warlocks. How many of them have ended up on the Council? The young might take over the Council after having been drafted into a war they were forced to play defense in.

[KurtinStGeorge]

Eb is certainly a bossy guy, but this uncontrollable rage against the white court seems new and deux ex machina in my opinion.  We know He shouldn't be having such rage issues because:
1.  When Harry soulgazed him he saw a big steady oak, not something that readily loses itself to rages and angers.
2.  One of the key things he taught Harry was how to deal with his anger, so the idea that he is such a total fail at it here is out of character
3.  He was trusted by the previous black staff wielder enough to be given the blackstaff.  You don't give permission to kill at will to someone who has those kind of rage issues.
4.  He obviously didn't have these rage issues when he sat down at a friggin dinner party with his daughter, Papa Raith, and a member of the red court.  Sure, he said no to their proposal, but he was polite and his own friggin daughter thought there was a chance he would say yes.  If he had had these issues then there would have been no way she would have even tried inviting him to that dinner.

OK, but what does it suggest to you if it isn't a lazy use of deux ex machina by the author?  Ebenezer's age leading to an onset of dementia could be a natural explanation for his behavior.  Anger issues and sometimes extreme anger can be a part of this illness.  I've personally seen this kind of thing in action and it's a sad and depressing thing to witness.  Perhaps some of the people on this forum have had a similar experience.  More importantly, it fits with the theme of the older members of the Senior Council hanging on because they know a storm is coming and they believe they are the only ones qualified to deal with it, when in fact they may no longer be up for the job.

However, there is another explanation which also fits with a major plot element in the larger story.  Alarm bells should go off when we see a character who is acting against their nature.  It's one of the signs that they are no longer themselves and have been nemfected.

If either of these possibilities are correct then Ebenzer McCoy is no longer fit to wield the Blackstaff.  It's also a clue that Eb is nearing the end of his journey and someone else will have to carry the Blackstaff.  You know, it might not be something that the White Council bestows upon Harry as much it's something Harry picks up when Eb falls in battle.  At that point the Council would have a choice.  They could let the Winter Knight; who is no longer a member of the White Council, use the blackstaff as he sees fit or as Mab sees fit, or return him to his position on the Council, allow him to leave the Wardens; because Harry never wanted to be one in the first place, and become the new Blackstaff of the White Council.  This would also prevent Harry from returning the staff to its original owner.