!!!SPOILERS!!! PEACE TALKS !!!SPOILERS!!!

[Gigglestomp]

Ferrovax is way more powerful than Ethniu. Jim's already said Ferro is so powerful thats hes actually limited. If he ever powered up it would break reality. When he was talking about things that could challenge mab the list was very short and it was basically a caviat about having to surrender reality in a lose lose situation even if you won. On the list was Ferrovax and an Archangel among a few others (Like the white council. All of it, not just the senior council. And it would have to be outside of faerie and probably in the summer).

But he mentioned ferro was so strong he would basically break reality where he stood if he powered up, so in a way he is limited. I imagine he's a more powerful badass version of shenron from dragonball z. Like super dragon ball dragon. Universe changes around him and warps if he exercises power, and might break altogether.

Ethniu is either weak enough that she can power up, or she cheated and found a way to manage it without breaking reality, or she doesn't care about reality. With the outsider attack its probably C.

Anyway that's why ferro can't fight her he has to limit himself to sealing the earth to her.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

As I say Ferro is probably the Midgard Serpent, most of his power is checked by Odin/Beowulf/Kringle, all of whom have dragon issues. It’s like Summer and Winter, checks and balances.

Neither can bring their full power into play without kicking off Ragnarok.

[Bad Alias]

I missed the Kringle dragon connection.

Ethniu breaking reality would be a good way to explain all the continuity errors.

[Yuillegan]

Gigglestomp what are you talking about? Where was an Archangel on that list?

Ferrovax was clearly scared of her, Vadderung too. Notice they didn't even attempt to protect or defend Mab? Also the reactions both of them have...are both terrified and both sound like they are being forced/compelled to talk. Note the gasping?

What makes you think that was Ethniu's "true form" anyhow? Not to mention she remembers what One-Eye once was and that he is now almost mortal. Where would you place her now? She respected Vadderung when he was Odin, or whatever he was once. Not what he is now.

Reality did have trouble with her. Dresden could barely keep his thoughts together, he started moaning and worshiping. All the mortals did. Reality couldn't even contain her speed or power. Dresden had to work out her attack by inference.

The surrender Reality thing was if Mab isn't there to defend the Gates with her army, then the Outsiders get in. It wouldn't be instantaneous. An army without it's leader is weak, and Mab is their strength.

Ferrovax talks about cracking the gathering of monkey houses, which Jim says is more like the world bending around Neo than literally cracking the earth. That said, Ferro does talk about how his contribution to the fight if all out would do more damage than good - by which he is implying colateral damage. He isn't discussing what would happen to reality, but to Chicago itself. But that isn't to say he is anything on Ethniu's level.

The beings on the list were (not including the nations): The Mothers (who wouldn't), Titania (exactly 50/50), Ferrovax (stronger in a slugfest, Mab would be loathe to take him head on), Drakul, Cowl (if he completed the Darkhallow) - he would have become a minor God. Which all assumes Mab is alone without her army outside Faerie...just like she was in Peace Talks.

The Archangel's are not on it for another reason - they don't act because they can't, apparently. But tbh they are all on another scale entirely.

Ethniu is a God. A Titan. She might not be the strongest, but she is the last and she has gone mad. If the others were capable of beating her, they would have shown up.

Cowl would have been a god, Ethniu is a god already. Either way, both could have beaten Mab who is merely a demigod. A God trumps a demigod, in raw power.

But if you want to talk strategy, allies, options and favors...well that's a different story.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Perhaps the original plan was for Darkhallow Cowl to challenge Mab with a Red Court/ Ghoul army. This may be Plan B, with the Fomor requiring certain specific severed heads to do the Black Council’s bidding, allies rather a true believer.

[Yuillegan]

^^I completely agree.

I have theorized before that the Red Court were always just one talon of the cats paw, with the real wielders still behind the scenes. Many of us suspect that Fomor have just replaced the Red Court as the current champion of the enemy.

The clear goals have remained the same for the faceless group (the theoretical Black Council, perhaps the same organization as the Circle).
Namely: Destroy the White Council, create global chaos (especially amongst the supernatural nations), take out Mab and instate a New Order. Humans would return to being cattle and stripped of what little power they have gathered. Hence why even some of the more predatory nations (like the White Court) are protecting their investment...humans.

Interesting idea about the Fomor requesting severed heads. I assume this is because of their united by revenge theme?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

It’s not destroy the White Council and never has been, it’s destroy the Accords, the White Council is merely collateral damage, destroy the Accords you tear the White Council apart, set Summer on Winter, force a change of management in the White Court, destroy Marcone, destroy the Archive, set Ferro and Vadderung on each other again etc etc and have them all set upon by the mortals for the destruction of Chicago. Frankly the Swartalves are the only group not worth targeting, they are Switzerland.

No the Fomor merely want the severed heads of their traditional enemies, that is their price, it doesn’t benefit the Black Council, but hey why not if t gets you a Titan.

[Yuillegan]

Are you sure one of the goals isn't to destroy the White Council? The White Council was set up to protect humanity from the monsters and itself. Removing them would be a major step towards the end of humanity and a reversion into a darker age.

The Black Council has clearly attempted to remove the Council for a long time. The Vampires (as a whole) were always going to try and remove the Council, particularly the Reds. But originally the Whites also were part of that side (although possibly hedging their bets). Harry was manipulated into throwing the first punch, that's been stated a few times.

Cowl (who is likely on the Black Council) was going to destroy it. And he was quite happy to.

As early as Grave Peril the Council's destruction has been on the cards and spoken of.

The Svartalves aren't Switzerland...where did you get that idea? The only neutral beings I know of are the Archive and Mac.

It does benefit the aims of the Black Council to have more chaos in the world and remove the competition.

[astralwanderer]

I missed the Kringle dragon connection.

Ethniu breaking reality would be a good way to explain all the continuity errors.

How many errors have you found so far? I found a few of them to be a little obvious myself.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

St Nicholas charmed a dragon as a miracle. St Nicholas, Kringle, Santa, Father Christmas that’s a lot of alias even for Vadderung.

[Bad Alias]

How many errors have you found so far? I found a few of them to be a little obvious myself.

There's a continuity error thread.

St Nicholas charmed a dragon as a miracle. St Nicholas, Kringle, Santa, Father Christmas that’s a lot of alias even for Vadderung.

Thanks.

[vultur]

Perhaps the original plan was for Darkhallow Cowl to challenge Mab with a Red Court/ Ghoul army.

I don't think Cowl actually intended to fight Mab... the WoJ just means that post-Darkhallow he would have been on that power level. (The Mothers are also on that WoJ list, and it specifically says they wouldn't do it).

But then, my WAG/theory for years has been that Cowl was lying to the Red Court to set the Vampire War into higher gear. I don't think Cowl's real plan is/was anything like Harry believes it was.

Maybe I should repost that theory, it's probably been like 7-8 years... I think that was pre-CD even.)

[vultur]

Are you sure one of the goals isn't to destroy the White Council? The White Council was set up to protect humanity from the monsters and itself. Removing them would be a major step towards the end of humanity and a reversion into a darker age.

...or so the White Council claims. We've heard this from people who are Council members. That doesn't mean it's objectively true.

If the White Council was really about protecting humanity from "the monsters", there would be a lot fewer monsters that prey on humans around. War isn't necessarily against the Accords ... No one acts like Harry violated the Accords by killing off the Red Court, after all.

[Arjan]

More likely the white council is set up to stop mortal wizards from meddling with outsiders.

Or alternatively. The white council is set up by the immortals to stop competition, prevent them to get real magic and mantles.