New Drop Chapter Three

[Regenbogen]

Btw, Thomas doesn't know that Eb is his grandfather, does he? I'm not sure. Haven't found the chapter yet, where Harry has the grandfather talk with Eb in Changes. I think it was before the limousine crystal chat in chapter 40. Nobody could listen in on that.

And after killing Susan and Harry sitting outside with Maggie, Thomas wasn't near.
So did he hear something?


Edit: Ah, sorry. Found it. I remembered wrong. Eb didn't tell him. It was in chapter 48 in Changes. It was Martin. Got confused in my head.

So Thomas doesn't know. And he was already away with hurt Molly after Maggie was rescued.

[g33k]

... So Thomas doesn't know ...

Say rather, "If Thomas knows, that happened offscreen... so we can't know that he knows."

Margaret LaFay could have told Thomas, before she left.
I presume that Papa Raith knew, and he may have told Thomas.
Lara now has Papa Raith's library -- which likely has records of Papa Raith's different leverage &c -- so Lara may have told Thomas.
Thomas is neither stupid, nor without resources of his own, and may have found out without being told.
 

[Arjan]

Say rather, "If Thomas knows, that happened offscreen... so we can't know that he knows."

Margaret LaFay could have told Thomas, before she left.
I presume that Papa Raith knew, and he may have told Thomas.
Lara now has Papa Raith's library -- which likely has records of Papa Raith's different leverage &c -- so Lara may have told Thomas.
Thomas is neither stupid, nor without resources of his own, and may have found out without being told.

"How did Arianna know?" Ebenezar shook his head. "A dinner. Maggie--my Maggie--asked me to a dinner. She'd just taken up with that Raith bastard. Arianna was there. Maggie didn't warn me. They had some scheme they wanted my support on. The vampires thought I was just Maggie's mentor, then." He sighed. "I wanted nothing to do with it. Said she shouldn't want it, either. And we fought."

I grunted. "Fought like family."

"Yes," he said. "Raith missed it. He's never had any family that was sane. Arianna saw it. Filed it away for future reference."

So I do not think Thomas or his father know. Lara might have guessed after Ebenezar's display in Turn Coat but she has no real human reference frame either so I don't think so. Harry did not know before Changes and he is a wizard, I do not think he told Thomas and I do think that would not happen off screen anyway.

So no, Harry is the only one who knows and he can not just tell. Thomas can handle it but Ebenezar might go ballistic. It can really go wrong. He certainly won't see it as a reason to trust Thomas but it would lead to him even more thinking that Harry trusts him too much.

Also there is Lara. Revealing secrets can lead to revealing even more secrets which can comlicating things.   

[123Chikadee]

My question for Eb/Thomas is less about motivation and more on terms of tactics. So Eb could be warning Harry that it's

(click to show/hide)

himself

doing the backstabbing, which would mean that's it just that Thomas is a means to and end and/or bonus of getting someone harmful out of Harry's life? So this warning is for Harry to have a way to figure out its Eb, who's more or less under duress and wants to give Harry an opportunity to either give himself an out and/or expose parts of the Council.
Maybe Eb has been given false info about Thomas or the circles he moves in and due to his bad experiences and biases, he doesn't look further b/c Thomas.
So maybe the Black Council/Nemesis wants to separate Harry and Thomas as well. That way, they can fully destabilize Harry and Thomas is just the first of Harry's allies. So it's almost like 'White Night' again. (Though I can see this going out of control for them.) Maybe that's how we see Cowl and possibly Kumori again, b/c the former has experience with the WCV.
 

[g33k]

... So Eb could be warning Harry that it's

(click to show/hide)

himself

doing the backstabbing, which would mean that's it just that Thomas is a means to and end and/or bonus of getting someone harmful out of Harry's life? So this warning is for Harry to have a way to figure out its Eb, who's more or less under duress and wants to give Harry an opportunity to either give himself an out and/or expose parts of the Council ...

I like this theory.

Eb has more/better info.  He sees the situation forming, knows that Harry will be manipulated into a position where Eb has to act in ways that will seem like a betrayal to Harry.  He's warning Harry, so Harry has contingency plans for any of his allies who do that.

[Mira]

  Here is something that doesn't make sense.  I find it hard to believe that Eb doesn't know that
Margaret had a child with Raith,  especially in the light that supposedly he had dinner with them once a year or so.  If he does know, then he must also know that Thomas is his grandson.. Or he and Margaret were estranged for a number of years after she got together with Raith.. Or he is in complete denial that he has a vamp for a grandson... Or he is either really stupid not to have figured it out [unlikely,] or hiding something from both Harry and Thomas for his own reasons.

[123Chikadee]

Maybe Eb heard there's a plot going on in WCV area and figures this is the last straw?
I've been thinking that

(click to show/hide)

Thomas may have gotten Venatori orders that someone big-possibly Evanna-was nemfected and that he had to take her/them out. Lara doesn't know this b/c she's too busy with the PT do it and Thomas is considered more disposable. If he gets these orders a little bit before the PT, then maybe that could be the reason that he seems so reluctant to be father; he's already resigned to the fact that he'll die.

Maybe Eb got wind of this somehow? If so, it'd probably be through BC chatter. He's got to have someone on the inside and there's gotta be a ton of misinformation going on. I mean Eb may have a whole lot of negative emotion reasons for trying to take Thomas out, but he almost certainly knows that he's his grandson, so he'd need some kind of 'logical' justification that he can call up so he can give himself a reason to attack.
@Mira: I think it's denial. It's just that he's aware that and to compensate for that, he acts really aggressive/double down.

[Walter the skull]

I too was thinking Thomas's arrest could be related to his Venatory work.

Ebeneezer probably knows.  He knows approximately when Maggie Sr was with Raith and the White Council probably had enough intel on the White Court to have an idea of when Thomas was born.       

[123Chikadee]

Right! Because I can't think of a reason why The Archive wouldn't be working towards destroying the Outsiders or at least making sure that Nemesis is dealt with.
It also guarantees that Thomas won't tell Harry what's going on and that he's lying about something major. b/c Thomas would have to lie about why he tries to kill someone and there's no way Harry won't find out that Thomas lied to him even if he doesn't get the real reason. 

[morriswalters]

Isn't there a WOJ that say the Oblivion War won't come up in the books.

[123Chikadee]

I think so, but hey he could change his mind.

[Mira]

Isn't there a WOJ that say the Oblivion War won't come up in the books.

  Then what is the point of bringing them up at all?  If they are mentioned in the short stories, there is always the possibility they will be brought up in some fashion in the books.

[morriswalters]

You would have to ask him.  But if his word is unreliable then what is the point of WOJ's.

[123Chikadee]

@Mira: Pretty much. I mean I understand that some world building details aren't going to be used in the main storyline, but this is pretty big, I'd say.
@morriswalters: *Shrugs* I'm not sure.

[Dina]

I never gave much value to the WoJ, as he is entitled to change his opinion