New Drop Chapter Three

[Dina]

Yes, when we met Mab Harry says that there would be no problem in watching her eyes as there could not be a soulgaze because Fae have no souls (Harry said there are other reasons not to look a Fae in the eyes, but not that).
That generated a lot  of conversation here about Lily (long before Molly). There was a WoJ where Jim said that Lily was deluding herself to believe that she could not become a total fae. That was one of the WoJ I think we should take with caution, as it seems with Molly Jim changed a little his idea.
I do remember I was so angry about Molly becoming the Lady precisely for that reason. As a catholic, the idea of a young girl losing her soul just because "she was in the wrong place in the wrong moment" was terrible.
BUT, then, apparently JB said something about Mab having a residual soul or something like this. This is a complicated topic here, mainly because Harry's comment about faeries souls could be wrong simply because in universe Harry is wrong (there is speculation that that particular piece of lore came from Bob, who could be biased himself. He has a story with Mab)

[Regenbogen]

Ah, that was in Summer Knight. I didn't remember the soul part. Yes. Maybe Harry just doesn't know better.
As I didn't remember the soul comment, I just assumed a soulgaze can only happen from human soul to human soul, and that other souls wouldn't be compatible, just like you can communicate with your dog, but you can't understand exactly, what he says. I just put in my personal belief, that every living being has a soul. Or as stated in Ghost Story by "Mr. Sunshine" or Bob(I think?): "You are a soul. You have a body" (quote not looked up or verified, just from memory). So a wizard can't soulgaze a fae, because they have fae souls, not human souls.
If a halfling becomes fae, his soul changes to fae, too.
If a human becomes one of the Queens, it could be, that the soul is gradually changed to a fae one, but not lost in my theory.

Sorry, a bit off topic, and I am sure this has been discussed before somewhere in this forum, but I have not read it. These are just my thoughts, and why I think, the Lady's soul isn't lost, only changed when and if she becomes fae.

[Mira]

@Mira
Why would Molly's soul be lost? I don't see it that way. Does Mab have no soul? Do the fae have no souls? I can't remember having read anything about that.

  Mab was human once, but now she is mostly Fae, they supposedly have no souls.  So does Mab still have a hint of a soul?   Who knows?   Yeah, I remember the comment about the problem with trying to do a soul gaze with one of the Fae is they have no soul.  However does that extend to those who are half human or were human once?

[Arjan]

Or maybe the hang up with your soul is overblown. Mab and Gard seem to think that finding your purpose is the real important thing. It could also be a transformation, your soul is not gone, just changed. Uriel did not seem concerned for Molly.

“Um,” Bob said. “Complicated. Think of your spirit-self as a seed. Your soul is the Um,” Bob said. “Complicated. Think of your spirit-self as a seed. Your soul is earth it grows in. You need both when you die. The way I’ve heard it . . . they sort of blend together to become something new. It’s a caterpillar-butterfly thing.”
 

[Dina]

Regen, yes, you can perfectly be right. Truth is we still don't have enough information to be 100% sure. I mean, it is written "Fae have no soul" but it is said for an unreliable narrator and in the specific context of a soulgaze. Just a comment, here in the forum we do a lot of free-style RPG, with different characters and stuff. And our canon has been yes, faeries and vampires have a soul. Only it is a different soul. It can be detected by other means, not soulgazes 
By the way, I believe the quote about the existence of other reasons not to look at someone's eyes was about Bianca (so, a vampire) not about Mab. I had those two situations confused, sorry about that.

[123Chikadee]

Yeah it'd be nice if fae had souls, at least that would mean that Molly isn't getting shafted.

[Dina]

And it would be good for Lily too, who I like.

[knightedbishop]

From Uriel’s discussions with Harry, I think the soul is bound to free will. If angels labor to protect free will and choice, and they also are concerned with saving souls, I therefore think free will, soul, and the soul gaze are linked.

Jim implies, as many story tellers do, that greater power limits ones’s freedom to act. No mortal wizard holds a candle to the ladies, who are the least of the queens. Uriel is incredibly powerful, and is similarly incredibly bound on using his power.

At the same time, Uriel gives that thoughtful nugget: you are a soul, you have a body. I can’t see that Molly or Lily’s souls vanished because they took their mantles. They still have will. They are bound in their ability to exercise it. I can see their soul somehow suppressed as their free will to act is similarly suppressed. Lost? No. Obscured? Yes. I think that ties well into the soul gaze too. The soul gazes of mortals we’ve seen have revealed who someone is or who they may become. We don’t see immortals in a soul gaze, but the Sight shows who they are in terms of power and intent, like the vileness of the nagloshii or the sheer scope of Mab and Titania when they were creating a battle ground. In short, the soul gaze depicts the sum of a mortal’s choices to date and where future choices may lead. When a being has little or no free will to choose, there is little or nothing to see from a soul gaze, but the Sight can show their power and intent.

Give up the mantle and you are free to choose again. Mortality can be lost because it is a status bound up in free will. It can be regained by giving up the power that bound your will. The soul gaze (or lack of it) reflects a being’s status at the moment.

[Dina]

I had not thought that. It is an interesting theory.

[123Chikadee]

I like that theory and I hope it's gets confirmed.

[Bad Alias]

I not going to support my theory, and it doesn't matter if anyone believes it.  It's the ending that I'm creating in my head for the books I won't get to read. It needn't be right, it just needs to match whatever facts I have when I get to whatever will be my last book.  More than likely Battle Ground.  I pretty much have it in my head now.

I hope your wrong and have many healthy years ahead of you.

Faeries and Souls

Isn't there something in one of the books about how faeries don't have souls, but might maybe have a soul that's so different that a soulgaze isn't possible. It might have been that if a soulgaze was possible, the faeries wouldn't be able to understand a human soul. I thought it was in SK, but I can't find it if it is.