Power Creep

[TrueMonk]

Having the swords in custody means that he always have them on hand when needed, assuming that there is someone who can wield them. Given the nature of them I would expect that anytime they are meant to be used there will be someone on hand to use them. They, now it, can't even be tricked to deal with an emergency somewhere else. So they are at least really really handy ally power ups.

I remember seeing a word of Jim somewhere that the threat he makes to Mavra on having read the word of kemmler is because there is also something in there for dealing with black court vampires very  efficiently. If nothing else knowing how to become a minor did must be some sort of power up.

[Avernite]

Having the swords in custody means that he always have them on hand when needed, assuming that there is someone who can wield them. Given the nature of them I would expect that anytime they are meant to be used there will be someone on hand to use them. They, now it, can't even be tricked to deal with an emergency somewhere else. So they are at least really really handy ally power ups.

Alternatively, the fact he needs them on hand is a clear sign he's totally going down unless he has specific supernatural aid

[g33k]

Having the swords in custody means that he always have them on hand when needed, assuming that there is someone who can wield them. Given the nature of them I would expect that anytime they are meant to be used there will be someone on hand to use them...

A very salient point, I think.  It is their nature to have the relevant sword wielded when and where it's needed.

... I remember seeing a word of Jim somewhere that the threat he makes to Mavra on having read the word of kemmler is because there is also something in there for dealing with black court vampires very efficiently ...

BCV's are magically-animated corpses.  Kemmler was the expert in that sort of thing...  So, yeah.

[magnuskn]

Jim has been pretty explicit about this when asked at conventions. Harry is getting the basic tools to deal with the increased threats he is facing as time goes on, but just so that he'll always be the underdog and have to use his wits to defeat them, instead of just overpowering them.

[Bad Alias]

I remember seeing a word of Jim somewhere that the threat he makes to Mavra on having read the word of kemmler is because there is also something in there for dealing with black court vampires very  efficiently. If nothing else knowing how to become a minor did must be some sort of power up.

I doubt Harry was bluffing because it would have been a really stupid bluff. He gave Mavra the book, so she would know. I always assumed the it was some kind of necromancy, which is a forbidden magic. Thinking about it now, I think Mavra knew that was in the book, and that's why she wanted it. The Black Court were allies of Kemmler. It may have been because they didn't have a choice.

It's an interesting question of whether a power up on the shelf, so to speak, counts as a power up. If everyone, or just enough/the right people, knows about it, then it definitely helps his reputation. We've seen his reputation keep him safe a number of times.

Most of these things are definitely going to be good examples of Checkov's Gun. Some of them probably aren't going to pan out. In his recent interview with Patrick Rothfuss, Jim said some author at a convention gave him the advice that if you think of something cool, use it. It's probably a good idea your subconscious had that you haven't worked out yet, and if it isn't, it doesn't hurt to have a throwaway cool thing.

Jim has been pretty explicit about this when asked at conventions. Harry is getting the basic tools to deal with the increased threats he is facing as time goes on, but just so that he'll always be the underdog and have to use his wits to defeat them, instead of just overpowering them.

Yeah. I took the term power creep from him. He often says that the way for an author to handle it is by having to know where your character is going. It's stated in conjunction with a story has a beginning, a middle, and an end.

[Snark Knight]

I doubt Harry was bluffing because it would have been a really stupid bluff. He gave Mavra the book, so she would know. I always assumed the it was some kind of necromancy, which is a forbidden magic. Thinking about it now, I think Mavra knew that was in the book, and that's why she wanted it. The Black Court were allies of Kemmler. It may have been because they didn't have a choice.

There's even a WOJ that he wasn't bluffing.

That doesn't mean there aren't risks or consequences for him if he actually uses that easy way to wreck a blampire, though. It may risk him going dark, for one thing.

The short story It's My Birthday Too was well after DB. There has to be some reason he chose to pick those blampires off with the gravity spell and then feign defeat to spit garlic in the leader's face rather than use the easy button he knows for wrecking them.

[Mira]

There's even a WOJ that he wasn't bluffing.

That doesn't mean there aren't risks or consequences for him if he actually uses that easy way to wreck a blampire, though. It may risk him going dark, for one thing.

  It wasn't a bluff, he has read the book, Sue was proof of that.

[Ed0517]

Power creep is inevitable - look how they talk of wizards - the Senior Council is the oldest AND MOST POWERFUL. Both criteria go together.

 A bonfire has more energy than a cutting torch. But Harry learns (from Luccio?) how to FOCUS his fire into a laser like beam.  More effective. More efficient.

Cowl talks of being disappointed Harry is not ready for the heavyweight division - as in you are expected to move up in time. Rashid talks about Harry being the most powerful OF HIS GENERATION - as in other generations may be more powerful.

BTW, for Cinder Spires readers.. recall this - pb p 529

(click to show/hide)

power crystals only grew more and more capable of efficiently channeling etheric energy

so Jim uses the same concept there

[Yuillegan]

Intersting point, Ed0517.

In a recent interview Jim actually talked about that very encounter and how in the next book (or two) we are going to see what the heavyweight division is. We know a that

(click to show/hide)

The Last Titan

comes to town after this book (from the blurb of Batte Ground). So I suspect he was talking about that.

The fact Cowl was referencing it as far back as Dead Beat (and could tell from Harry's shield he wasn't ready) says to me that this has been in motion for sometime and there might be further hints. I also suspect that was a small hint that Cowl will show up again in the next book (or two).

So the real question is Harry ready for the heavyweight division now?

[TrueMonk]

...Yeah. I took the term power creep from him. He often says that the way for an author to handle it is by having to know where your character is going. It's stated in conjunction with a story has a beginning, a middle, and an end.

To be fair I think the term "Power Creep" is usually taken to mean how characters slowly become to powerfull for the obstacles they are facing. Like in DnD at lvl 5 the world is full of deadly threats, but at lvl 15 a good party can really steamroll a lot of things. Jim then states that he is not going to have this problem in Dresden Files because he has planned out the books till the end. In this way Dresdens power will never creep too high relative to the things he is fighting, i.e. there will be no power creep.

I agree, but I really like the thread so I just took the thread to mean Power Increase, which I think was Bad Alias intent.

Moving on.

One thing I like related to power creep is the realization that comes from meeting something that used to be a threat, but is not (much of a threat) anymore. Like in a DnD game where we early in the story had a boss fight with a troll and somewhat later had to conquer a small castle manned by lots and lots of trolls. That made the progression of our characters very clear. I hope we will see that in Peace Talks, e.g. Dresden punching an Octokong in the face.

[Bad Alias]

But Harry learns (from Luccio?) how to FOCUS his fire into a laser like beam.

He does see Luccio do it in Dead Beat and internal monologues about how there's a big difference between him and her. He does get closer to that level of precision with his blasting rod, where she didn't appear to use a focus, but Harry was already getting more focus and control of his fuego spell. I wouldn't say he learned it from Luccio. I'd just say Luccio is a bench mark for what a wizard can accomplish after a lifetime as a combat specialist.

I don't think escalation of power is necessarily inevitable in serial fiction broadly or even serial fantasy fiction specifically. I do think it's almost necessarily inherent in the framing of the idea of the Dresden Files as Jim has talked about how he broadly conceived the idea. He's said things like it's about the young hot heads who haven't earned respect yet, he wanted a wizard who threw fireballs (I'm assuming that's a direct DnD reference), etc.

To be fair I think the term "Power Creep" is usually taken to mean how characters slowly become to powerfull for the obstacles they are facing. Like in DnD at lvl 5 the world is full of deadly threats, but at lvl 15 a good party can really steamroll a lot of things. Jim then states that he is not going to have this problem in Dresden Files because he has planned out the books till the end. In this way Dresdens power will never creep too high relative to the things he is fighting, i.e. there will be no power creep.

I agree, but I really like the thread so I just took the thread to mean Power Increase, which I think was Bad Alias intent.

Yeah. That was my understanding of the term from general usage as well. A good example is in collectible card games where the cards slowly get better and better so that cards from early releases become useless garbage which undermines the supposed backwards compatibility of earlier releases. TV Tropes says:

This trope is the Gameplay Mechanics counterpart to So Last Season, Overshadowed by Awesome, Sequel Escalation and Serial Escalation, which refers to narrative or thematic elements.

So power creep isn't really applicable because 1) it's not a game, and 2) Jim does it too well for the pejorative connotation of power creep to be fitting, but it's what Jim says, so I went with it.

One thing I like related to power creep is the realization that comes from meeting something that used to be a threat, but is not (much of a threat) anymore. Like in a DnD game where we early in the story had a boss fight with a troll and somewhat later had to conquer a small castle manned by lots and lots of trolls. That made the progression of our characters very clear. I hope we will see that in Peace Talks, e.g. Dresden punching an Octokong in the face.

One thing I like about how Jim handles power escalation, is that Harry, who was always way more powerful than "tiny fairies," to quote Bob, is still vulnerable to them after getting so much more powerful. And it's really enjoyable because it's not like Jim is just nerfing Harry to make them still a threat. Tiny fairies killed Aurora in book 4. Harry wouldn't have to worry much about a pixie, but a swarm is another matter entirely.

Another thing that I enjoy is that Jim explains why Harry doesn't just smash opponents he probably should be able to. The tiny fairies in CD were too close to the Za Guard and Harry just couldn't bring himself to immolating them anyway. In SG, he probably could have torn through the Octokongs, but he was surrounded by potential innocent victims.

[Ed0517]

To be fair I think the term "Power Creep" is usually taken to mean how characters slowly become to powerfull for the obstacles they are facing. Like in DnD at lvl 5 the world is full of deadly threats, but at lvl 15 a good party can really steamroll a lot of things.

He is growing in power, but so are his enemies. Much like a D&D game where you fight orcs, then ogres, then that fire giant who would easily crush orcs and ogres. He used to watch over a small part of Chicago, then he was  regional commander in the Wardens, now Winter Knight and next.....

The power creep is Little League, then High School, the minor leagues, and then the bigs.... remember when there was a game named baseball?

[Ed0517]

He does see Luccio do it in Dead Beat and internal monologues about how there's a big difference between him and her. He does get closer to that level of precision with his blasting rod, where she didn't appear to use a focus, but Harry was already getting more focus and control of his fuego spell. I wouldn't say he learned it from Luccio. I'd just say Luccio is a bench mark for what a wizard can accomplish after a lifetime as a combat specialist.

Ok, so maybe he is inspired by her. He gets the idea that a waterjet can cut better than a fire hose.  Though I would not rule out her giving him a tip or two, like a coach giving a pitcher a tip on his grip for a split finger fastball. Still requires work on his side. 

I don't think escalation of power is necessarily inevitable in serial fiction broadly or even serial fantasy fiction specifically. I do think it's almost necessarily inherent in the framing of the idea of the Dresden Files as Jim has talked about how he broadly conceived the idea. He's said things like it's about the young hot heads who haven't earned respect yet, he wanted a wizard who threw fireballs (I'm assuming that's a direct DnD reference), etc.

Yes, Jim is obviously a gamer. two parts stand out - where gaming with the Alphas, Harry says they stand at a certain distance, and the fireball died out right in front of them, and Harry disapproved of the exactness. In early AD&D, a fireball was a 20' radius sphere - launched carelessly into a small room with heavy stone walls, the blast could be funneled out right over the casters. I think Harry would prefer having to make sure the group ensure they were not hoist by their own petard.  Jim likes fire having to follow physical laws, he spoke to Murphy about the neat hole the Hellfire burned, saying the control might be more difficult  than evoking the fire. 

     the second is where Harry tells Susan in the Erlking's lair they are facing goblins, and she says "Shouldn't you be able to take about a million of them?' or something to that effect.  In early AD&D, at least,  when fighting very weak foes (less than 1 HD) a fighter got as many attacks as he had levels. So for something like a goblin, a good fighter will be chopping them down like wheat. Harry replies they are tougher than their reputation. In AD&D orcs beat goblins, and hobgoblins beat orcs. Butcher's goblins are tougher than Gygax's. 

One thing I like about how Jim handles power escalation, is that Harry, who was always way more powerful than "tiny fairies," to quote Bob, is still vulnerable to them after getting so much more powerful. And it's really enjoyable because it's not like Jim is just nerfing Harry to make them still a threat. Tiny fairies killed Aurora in book 4. Harry wouldn't have to worry much about a pixie, but a swarm is another matter entirely.

The old "Pack of wolves beats a grizzly".

[dspringer1]

Other enhancements are just as powerful.  In no particular order as I cannot remember which book provides which.
*  After training molly, he can do veils a lot more easily
*  In ghost watching molly, he sees the power of illusion
*  As winter knight, he starts to effectively use cold magic -- first in Changes with mixed fire/cold attack, but I would argue more effectively in cold days
*  Reputation is power in the supernatural world - and Harry both builds reputation and leverages his reputation to get things done
*  His resistance to outsiders realized in cold days
*  His ability to block pain learned in Dead Beat from Lasciel
*  His summoning in book 1 that he used again a bit later in book 4 or 5, but not much since
*  Necromancy knowedge gained in Dead Beat.  he does not use much, but he did use
*  the ability to understand and speak multiple langues (and access to magical theory/history) gained from Lasciel and lost when he gave up the coin
*  He picked up mind magic in a much more effective way (defensively at least) after Turn Coat
*  Bear power belt showed up in book 2 and never came back* 

[EBRIEN]

I like shields as an example of HOW Harry gains power. Once he see how someone else does something, he's able to adapt it to his own power or modify it. I heard Mozart described as a Refiner of music, notso much an innovator. He wasn't doing anything new, just doing what had been done better than it had been done before. Example with shield bracelet and power rings--->His shield didn't take into account fire until he nearly lost his hand. With the rings...he had one, then he had triplets. It's sorta like technology and how it's not necessarily better now than last year, but it's more efficient at doing the same things. (Processing power--8 cores better than 6----Or twin turbo V6 vs naturally aspirated V8).

The one spell that seems to be on the increase the most is Shield spell
1. Physical objects.
2. To being able to defend against fire.
3. Uses it effectively in the Raith Deeps duel in white night.
4. Uses it against the Denarians, noticebly goes up against Thorned Namshiels 6 or 7 'wave lengths attack.'
5. Naagloshi uses a similar 'wave length attack'only Harry defends against all of the different attacks.
6. Duel with Arianna, and the Battle of Chitzchen Itza.
7. Mab trains him so he doesn't even need the Shield Bracelet. Defends against the Summer Knight.
8. Redirects Hannah Aschers Fire Spell with ease.

Thanks for my daily dose of thoughtful reflection. Cheers---Brien