New Wag

[Bad Alias]

@g33k: Better show that thread to Harry, lol.

Funny thing is that Harry knows that he could use his talents to be fantastically wealthy.

[123Chikadee]

@Mira: The WOJ that Harry would find out something that Lea was involved with and that they would fight over it. I'm just guessing at the context of the fight.
For me I'm just going on the fact that she was beginning to regret how her life turned out b/c it keeps her a tad more sympathetic than if she just got in too deep and had to run. That way she's already on that path when she meets Malcolm and that convinces her to stick with it.

@morriswalters: Oh, ok so instead of WCV trying to mind whammy Malcolm after he and Margaret are already in love, they tried to do so beforehand just as a preventive measure?
Ok, that makes sense. It makes me wonder if Margaret realized, even after she changed her ways, and got together w/ Malcolm, that she'd still create a starborn. Since she felt guilt over what happened to Harry, I don't think the irony was lost on her.

@Bad Alias: Right bt its much more fun to tease him about it.

[Mira]

he WOJ that Harry would find out something that Lea was involved with and that they would fight over it. I'm just guessing at the context of the fight.
For me I'm just going on the fact that she was beginning to regret how her life turned out b/c it keeps her a tad more sympathetic than if she just got in too deep and had to run. That way she's already on that path when she meets Malcolm and that convinces her to stick with it.

I wasn't aware of that WOJ.  For me either way Margaret is a sympathetic character, it makes no difference whether she began to repent on her own or did after she meets Malcolm.  The point is she changed.

[morriswalters]

Stalin could have changed.  It wouldn't have unfilled the graves he created with his victims.  For the purpose of the story I accept that she loved her son, but to quote Goodman Grey, she evidently was a piece of work.

@morriswalters: Oh, ok so instead of WCV trying to mind whammy Malcolm after he and Margaret are already in love, they tried to do so beforehand just as a preventive measure?
Ok, that makes sense. It makes me wonder if Margaret realized, even after she changed her ways, and got together w/ Malcolm, that she'd still create a starborn. Since she felt guilt over what happened to Harry, I don't think the irony was lost on her.

The deal was done.  Lash calls it in White Knight.

"It is relevant," Lasciel said, "because of the circumstances of your birth—because of why you were born, Harry. Your mother found the strength to escape Lord Raith for a reason."
What the hell was she talking about?
Thud-thump: 1:26.
"There was a complex confluence of events, of energies, of circumstances that would have given a child born under them the potential to wield power over Outsiders."

Nothing about his birth was random. Not the when or the why.  Malcolm may or may not be a scion.  But she was moving to a point.  She may have regretted doing to Harry whatever she did.  But the operative phrase is "she did".  So Harry was meant to be born on Halloween.  Margaret couldn't control conception but she could control time.  She could lay up in the Nevernever and come out when the time was at hand.

[123Chikadee]

Oh that's a neat idea for her to wait/alter time in the Nevernever.

[morriswalters]

Jim's made a point of this, over and over again.  It's time travel but in a reverse direction to what is expected. It's the first time trap in back to the future.

[Mira]

Stalin could have changed.  It wouldn't have unfilled the graves he created with his victims.  For the purpose of the story I accept that she loved her son, but to quote Goodman Grey, she evidently was a piece of work.

But apparently she did redeem herself, she was well on the way to Hell according to Chauncy, "but the Dark Prince lost her in the end."  Chauncy also mentions "redemption," and the "unnatural death of both father and mother."  So Margaret apparently paid for her sins and redeemed herself, true, as far as the deaths she caused goes, you cannot unring that bell, but there is such a thing as forgiveness.

Nothing about his birth was random. Not the when or the why.  Malcolm may or may not be a scion.  But she was moving to a point.  She may have regretted doing to Harry whatever she did.  But the operative phrase is "she did".  So Harry was meant to be born on Halloween.  Margaret couldn't control conception but she could control time.  She could lay up in the Nevernever and come out when the time was at hand.

I doubt that Malcolm was a scion, Eb says he was merely a mortal vanilla human with one of the best souls he ever saw.  No, nothing was random about Harry's conception or his birth, that is why his parents feel guilty, Harry had no say in a lot of what is going to come down on him because of what he is.  Oh and conception can be controlled,  I imagine that Margaret was very in-tuned to her body and her cycle, she'd know exactly when she was fertile, and marking when the stars were aligned exactly for the conception of a star child to be possible.   

[Con]

Sidenote on the redemption motif. The Dresden Files it's pretty prevelent. The KNights of the Cross have to offer it to all of the Denarians, and other monsters they face. Sasha was a Denarian before he turned away, I would say he's been redeemed.

Thomas killed who knows how many women before Justine, and a few after. Hell even Harry offers redemption to Hannah Ascher. Some people have Snape syndrome when it comes to Morgan. Not me personally bastard had it coming.

Mollly has been redeemed at least twice. First with the mental whammy, second as the Rag Lady.

I don't think Macolm was a scion, I do think he's an angel or atleast, a part of the Purgatory Squad. I do think Leansidhes Godmother deal involved the death of one or both of Harry's parents. Only thing I can think of that would cause Harry to duel her in anger and grief.

[Mira]

I don't think Macolm was a scion, I do think he's an angel or atleast, a part of the Purgatory Squad. I do think Leansidhes Godmother deal involved the death of one or both of Harry's parents. Only thing I can think of that would cause Harry to duel her in anger and grief.

I think if Malcolm was any of those things Eb would have picked up on that.  He said he was an ordinary vanilla human, but had about the best soul he'd ever seen.  Now there are saints, they start out a ordinary vanilla humans, Malcolm may have fit into that catagory.

[g33k]

I think if Malcolm was any of those things Eb would have picked up on that.  He said he was an ordinary vanilla human, but had about the best soul he'd ever seen.  Now there are saints, they start out a ordinary vanilla humans, Malcolm may have fit into that catagory.

Yeah; I think if Eb had soulgazed Michael Carpenter, he would have seen something similar.
 
It's clear in the Dresdenverse that humans have extraordinary potential.  99.9999% of them never even begin to touch it.
 

[Mira]

Yeah; I think if Eb had soulgazed Michael Carpenter, he would have seen something similar.
 
It's clear in the Dresdenverse that humans have extraordinary potential.  99.9999% of them never even begin to touch it.

  Agreed.

[Bad Alias]

There's a WoJ that "Saints" are wizards who also have faith magic. Basically if Michael was also a wizard.

If Malcolm was an angel, I don't think he would have died so easily.

[Mira]

There's a WoJ that "Saints" are wizards who also have faith magic. Basically if Michael was also a wizard.

If Malcolm was an angel, I don't think he would have died so easily.

   We don't know that Malcolm died easily, only that supposedly he died in his sleep.  Just because there was no sign of struggle, that doesn't mean that it was easy.  I agree though, he was not a supernatural being of any kind, including an angel.

[g33k]

There's a WoJ that "Saints" are wizards who also have faith magic. Basically if Michael was also a wizard.

Really?

Geez.  Today's my day for learning about all sorts of WoJ's I don't recall...      

Dunno if that makes me one of the lucky 10,000

or just getting senile.

[Bad Alias]

   We don't know that Malcolm died easily, only that supposedly he died in his sleep.  Just because there was no sign of struggle, that doesn't mean that it was easy.  I agree though, he was not a supernatural being of any kind, including an angel.

We don't even know he died in his sleep. Harry believes that, but he was six. I doubt anyone would tell him the unvarnished truth if it was something awful.

I didn't say I think he wasn't a supernatural being of any kind, just not an angel. I like the idea that he was vanilla. I just don't see a whole lot of evidence for it. All we have is Harry's recollections from his early childhood.