"Job placement" microfiction

[Arjan]

I think ghost story is underestimated purely because Harry does not set enough buildings to fire. It has Lea and she was wonderfull.

[Mira]

I think ghost story is underestimated purely because Harry does not set enough buildings to fire. It has Lea and she was wonderfull.

   I liked it as well, it also sets up how Harry's relationship with Mab is going to go.

[Arjan]

   I liked it as well, it also sets up how Harry's relationship with Mab is going to go.

And it has a lot of world building. It was a very important book for all kinds of discussions here.

[morriswalters]

Ghost Story was padding.  It introduced nothing that could have not be done in Cold Days, without adding more than a chapter or so.  Cold Days sets up everything going forward.  The Outsiders, the forever war at the Gates and the final trilogy.  And Jim had been pushing it since at least Proven Guilty.

Skin Games is a great book that is one third fluff, dedicated to the idea that to be a hero you need a sword.  And that the writer can push something that on it's face is ridiculous, and that fan boys will buy it.  And it does a disservice to Butters character arc in the series.

To whoever I just insulted I apologize, without surrendering the point.  Having said that, the other two thirds is a pretty rousing heist plot with a very nice twist.

[Dina]

I am not saying any of the books are not good, or relevant for the story or even needed, just that I am not a fan, for different reasons. One of those reasons is that I did not find GS or CD as entertaining as SG.
And morriswalters, the books have shown many times that you can be a hero without a sword. SG only says that sometimes a sword is a very useful and cool thing. An idea that comes from long before Jim (for example, in Arthurian legends). And of course, I personally love light sabers.

[morriswalters]

I am not saying any of the books are not good, or relevant for the story or even needed, just that I am not a fan, for different reasons. One of those reasons is that I did not find GS or CD as entertaining as SG.
And morriswalters, the books have shown many times that you can be a hero without a sword. SG only says that sometimes a sword is a very useful and cool thing. An idea that comes from long before Jim (for example, in Arthurian legends). And of course, I personally love light sabers.

Feel free not to share my opinion.  I won't be offended.

[Bad Alias]

But why would Harry's junior be managing security AND giving him orders?

How is the Western Regional Commander the junior of the Eastern Regional Commander? Harry was appointed as a regional commander when he got his cloak. Ramirez got the job as the "other regional commander in America" sometime after the second to last chapter of Dead Beat. Carlos has been a warden longer. Carlos probably has more points under any system based on superiors' evaluations. Harry is the Warden as opposed to a warden, but the Council, maybe even Senior Council, seems to be largely in the dark on that. So it's a toss up as to who is senior under whatever tie breaker the Council uses.

Tell me that the Council doesn’t want me to be our emissary.”

Ramirez blinked. “Wait, what? Oh . . . oh God, no, Harry. I mean . . . no. Just no.”

...

Ramirez cleared his throat before continuing. “But they will expect you to be the Council’s liaison with Winter, if needed, and to provide security for the Senior Council members in attendance.

That's why Carlos is in charge instead of Harry. 1. Harry would be a terrible choice because there's bad blood between him and just about everyone else, and Harry's a hot head. 2. If anyone was worried about offending Harry by putting someone else in charge of something in his territory, using Carlos, the person Harry asked to be in charge of security at the last official Council activity in Chicago, and the excuse that Harry is in a unique position to serve as the liaison to Winter would be enough to satisfy the protocol droids.

Former Captain of the Wardens, Senior Council Member Blackstaff McCoy, is going to be on the ground there, so I don't think the SC is going to be to worried about the young hotheads going off half cocked. It also pays to note that Carlos is one of the oldest wardens, not counting any who may or may not have been pulled out of retirement, because almost all of the active wardens were killed off in Dead Beat. At this point, the old guard can't be more than 50 or so. Probably less. I want to say the number of wardens was around 300 last time the number came up, but I'm not sure.

Being a part-time artist and Summer Knight is a long way from Harry. Harry Dresden, who actively gets involved in every struggle him can stumble into. Who starts and ends wars, who fights duels, who storms the enemy strongholds and assassinates key people and otherwise causes chaos and destruction (in the name of saving the world from worse).

Being a part-time artist takes up way more time than one weekend a year.

I can't remember the last time Harry has had any free time (except for a bite at BK or IHOP).

During the 363 days out of the year he isn't having the worst weekend of the year?

S.I. is both small and chronically, critically underfunded. Without Murphy to advocate for it and protect it I am sure it's more of a political exile than ever. Even before Murphy left they were being clamped down on and gutted. She's been gone a few years now and I doubt it does very much at all.

Stallings was said to be quite competent, so I'm not so sure it's going to be worse off without Murphy. Murphy hadn't been the one fighting turf wars since Proven Guilty. Honestly, S.I. might be better off. Even accepting your premise, that doesn't mean they aren't going to get all the weird cases in search of a scape goat dumped in their lap anyway. It's been around in one form or another for at least 40 years. It's still going to be a valuable source of information.

All that said, that response is a dodge of my question of if you were a warden in a city of millions, would you want S.I. to keep you in the loop? I ask that question because the answer is an obvious "yes." Harry doesn't have to keep his p.i. business to be kept in the loop, but he does have to offer something of value in return.

What's the BSF? Did you Brighter Future Society?

Yes. I don't think all the other parties we see meeting in GS are just going to quit fighting the good fight if Marcone cuts ties with their "Chicago Alliance." Maybe they loose out on Castle Dresden, but Harry doesn't need that. But if the BFS/Chicago Alliance/whatever does collapse and go away, that's a reason why Harry should re-open his office, not a reason that he shouldn't.

All I'm saying is that advertising as a wizard for hire in the yellow pages is a good way to:

protect mortals in this area. To be vigilant against supernatural threats in your region.

Luccio describing (some of) the duties of a warden, Dead Beat, Ch. 31.

I could see Harry not reopening his business. I just think it would be a really dumb move from an in universe perspective. It's a good way to have information show up on your door step. It's also a good way to launder his diamond money, but I doubt that will even come up in the books. He may or may not need more money than the money from the diamonds and his warden pay depending on how much he can get for the diamonds and a bunch of other factors we have little to no information on. As such, I'd want a good in universe explanation of why he's not doing it. (Just as a side note, the last in text job Harry had as Harry Dresden, P.I. was one month before Changes).

As for the Ghost Story discussion, GS is currently ranked as number 14 on my best to worst case file list. (Which still puts it higher on my overall best book list than most books I've read). There wasn't a whole lot wrong with it. It was just too slow for my taste. I also think it was mostly unnecessary. My first time through the books, I accidentally skipped it and didn't realize I missed anything until about a third of the way into Cold Days or wherever it was that characters started talking about Harry running around Chicago as a ghost. If you add three or four chapters to Cold Days and Skin Game showing the effect of Harry's suicide on everyone, then you've probably completely covered the themes of Ghost Story. It's always the book that takes me the longest to get through.

Ghost Story was padding.  It introduced nothing that could have not be done in Cold Days, without adding more than a chapter or so.  Cold Days sets up everything going forward.  The Outsiders, the forever war at the Gates and the final trilogy.  And Jim had been pushing it since at least Proven Guilty.

Skin Games is a great book that is one third fluff, dedicated to the idea that to be a hero you need a sword.  And that the writer can push something that on it's face is ridiculous, and that fan boys will buy it.  And it does a disservice to Butters character arc in the series.

To whoever I just insulted I apologize, without surrendering the point.  Having said that, the other two thirds is a pretty rousing heist plot with a very nice twist.

I basically agree except I think you need more than one chapter to cover the points from Ghost Story. I think it's fine for Butters to end up a Knight, but I have trouble with his and Murphy's inverse faith in Harry plot arcs over GS to SG and Butters ending up as the Knight of Faith after his repeated doubting Thomas routines.

I don't think the point is that one needs a sword to be a hero. I do think that one does need the power to affect the outcome of events to be a hero if the end result is to be anything other than having "died heroically" on a tombstone.

[magnuskn]

My big points of contention were that Fitz' story was a completely useless waste of time for a throwaway character, which could have been used to flesh out more what happened in the year Harry died, also where the other important characters were in their character arcs and that Murphy's character development in Ghost Story was pretty much completely reversed in Cold Days and hence also a big waste of time. The other stuff was good. But those two points soured the book for me.

[Mira]

How is the Western Regional Commander the junior of the Eastern Regional Commander? Harry was appointed as a regional commander when he got his cloak. Ramirez got the job as the "other regional commander in America" sometime after the second to last chapter of Dead Beat. Carlos has been a warden longer. Carlos probably has more points under any system based on superiors' evaluations. Harry is the Warden as opposed to a warden, but the Council, maybe even Senior Council, seems to be largely in the dark on that. So it's a toss up as to who is senior under whatever tie breaker the Council uses.

Thank you,  that is how I remembered it, it also makes sense that since Harry was considered dead
for the better part of a year and now Winter Knight as well, that Carlos would gain a little more standing since being the Western Regional Commander was his sole job. 

I basically agree except I think you need more than one chapter to cover the points from Ghost Story. I think it's fine for Butters to end up a Knight, but I have trouble with his and Murphy's inverse faith in Harry plot arcs over GS to SG and Butters ending up as the Knight of Faith after his repeated doubting Thomas routines.

I think Jim has had a lot of trouble with Murphy since he kicked her off the police force.   He has
tried several versions of her and none of them have worked all that well in my opinion. 

[Snark Knight]

Everything we've seen so far indicates that Harry's going to be reinstated as the regional commander located in Chicago. Also, it's stated in the text that no one was willing to step into that position. I think it was in Cold Case (just before Ramirez tells Molly he specifically rejected the job). Ramirez hasn't taken over Harry's job. He has been given the specific task of security for the White Council during the summit.
...
S.I. may or may not be relevant for the rest of the series, but if you were the warden of/in a major metropolitan area, and you were on speaking terms with a division of the police force that was assigned all the weird stuff, why wouldn't you talk to them about keeping you in the loop? I doubt S.I. is too worried about the legalities of killing, how did Butters put it, "humanoid but definitely not human" problems. Most cops who know about the supernatural would probably be happy to let Harry deal with any warlocks too. You remember what old Jack Burton says, "cops got better things to do than get killed."

Per the conversation with Morgan about the job at the end of DB, Ramirez is also a regional commander, responsible for the west coast. He must have declined the Council trying to get him to manage both regions at once.

As for SI, I'm not too sure where they're going to stand on supernatural civilian vigilantes now that Harry is back in town. It probably depends how humanoid the creatures in question are, and exactly how clued the SI cops are. I don't get the impression Stallings knows as much as Rawlins, let alone on par with Murphy when she was in charge. Although the FBI building being gutted and the Fomor acting more openly probably should have forced Stallings to learn more than he knew as of Changes & Aftermath. I wouldn't count on SI being OK with exterminating things like whampires or technically-human turtlenecks, though. And executing a warlock was still something Murphy was really bothered by as of PG - I really wouldn't count on most of the rest of SI looking the other way for that.

[Snark Knight]

I don't think the point is that one needs a sword to be a hero. I do think that one does need the power to affect the outcome of events to be a hero if the end result is to be anything other than having "died heroically" on a tombstone.

The Butters short story does set the messaging a bit straighter than just "lightsaber, pwned", too. But he was already trying to do hero stuff before the sword came to him, it's just that he was largely out of his league against the serious threats.

[Mira]

The Butters short story does set the messaging a bit straighter than just "lightsaber, pwned", too. But he was already trying to do hero stuff before the sword came to him, it's just that he was largely out of his league against the serious threats.

  Indeed he was, and what was beautiful about his character is he was an ordinary little guy, afraid of most things but trying to do his best.

As for SI, I'm not too sure where they're going to stand on supernatural civilian vigilantes now that Harry is back in town. It probably depends how humanoid the creatures in question are, and exactly how clued the SI cops are. I don't get the impression Stallings knows as much as Rawlins, let alone on par with Murphy when she was in charge. Although the FBI building being gutted and the Fomor acting more openly probably should have forced Stallings to learn more than he knew as of Changes & Aftermath. I wouldn't count on SI being OK with exterminating things like whampires or technically-human turtlenecks, though. And executing a warlock was still something Murphy was really bothered by as of PG - I really wouldn't count on most of the rest of SI looking the other way for that.

I think any "justice" handed out by any group outside of the laws she enforced all of her life bothered her.  In other words though the execution of warlocks, especially young one who could possibly be redeemed bothered Harry, I think it was for totally different reasons than as to why it bothered Murphy.   I also think that comes down to how a wizard would see things verses a vanilla human  law enforcement officer.

[morriswalters]

Whatever importance swords had in the story is history.  Butters can't have sword fights.  His sword cut Nic's in half, something that no other Knight had done to this point.  So unless Nic gets a light sabre he going to have to dance with a more modern weapon. This is my primary beef.

Butter's heroism was established in the museum when he attacked a dangerous wizard with his bare hands, despite his fear.  The light sabre doesn't make him more heroic, it simply makes him a 40 plus male with a plasma cutter.  And one with such bad vision that Jim uses it as a plot device in a short story.

I also realize that I am an endangered minority on this point so I'll let this be my last word on the subject.

[Mira]

Whatever importance swords had in the story is history.  Butters can't have sword fights.  His sword cut Nic's in half, something that no other Knight had done to this point.  So unless Nic gets a light sabre he going to have to dance with a more modern weapon. This is my primary beef.

Butter's heroism was established in the museum when he attacked a dangerous wizard with his bare hands, despite his fear.  The light sabre doesn't make him more heroic, it simply makes him a 40 plus male with a plasma cutter.  And one with such bad vision that Jim uses it as a plot device in a short story.

I also realize that I am an endangered minority on this point so I'll let this be my last word on the subject.

   I think you are perhaps missing the point a bit, or maybe you aren't and it is a bit different.  It isn't about the Sword or the skill at wielding it, it is about the meaning behind it. It is about the "why", not the Sword itself, or the skill wielding it.  Murphy's fight with Nic demonstrates that, based on skill alone, she had him beat, but when she went against the meaning and belief behind the Sword, it got broken and she got the snot kicked out of her.   So as you say, Butters is a forty plus year old man with a plasma cutter, which works because he will never be a skilled sword fighter.  However consider, when the Sword transformed itself in his hand, it was adjusting to what would work for him, given his low level of fighting skill because in his heart and mind, Butters can carry out the "why" of the Sword.

[Bad Alias]

[1]He must have declined the Council trying to get him to manage both regions at once.

...[2]I don't get the impression Stallings knows as much as Rawlins, let alone on par with Murphy when she was in charge. ... [3]And executing a warlock was still something Murphy was really bothered by as of PG - I really wouldn't count on most of the rest of SI looking the other way for that.

1. That makes sense. Luccio mentions three North American regional commanders that Harry would have to coordinate with. From the end of DB when Morgan has his conversation with Harry up to the most recent info we have, it appears that number was never higher than two.

2. I got the impression that Stallings was highly competent, but I do think Murphy was more clued in than any other member of S.I. Not sure about Stallings v. Rawlins. I do think Stallings would make a better head of S.I. than either of them because a lot of being the leader of a department in a bureaucracy is not causing problems with superiors. Murphy and Rawlins have histories of causing such problems. I feel that Murphy was a bit of a bad leader. Leader's shouldn't take the field if it will immediately cause there to be an absence of leadership.

3. I've worked with cops, have/had several cop friends, and my brother was a cop before retiring. In my experience, most cops are far less concerned with the law than Murphy claims to be. (I say claims because her behavior in FM suggests otherwise). And S.I. is the place they stick all the "dysfunctional" guys. I'd be willing to bet they're okay with coloring outside the lines. Seriously, part of their job is to file false reports. I'm not sure if they'd be fine with executing warlocks, but I'm pretty sure they'd be find with Harry saying he'd handle a problem that they don't want any part of and then just not ask any questions. I think they'd be fine with Harry taking out any creature that fits Butters "humanoid but definitely not human" descriptor. I think wamps aren't going to be officially investigated at all because of Lara's influence. S.I. might be told to drop it and do so after tipping off Harry. Additionally, they may just use Murphy as a go between for a lot of the unofficial stuff.

Butters can't have sword fights.  ...

Butter's heroism was established in the museum when he attacked a dangerous wizard with his bare hands, despite his fear.  The light sabre doesn't make him more heroic, it simply makes him a 40 plus male with a plasma cutter.  And one with such bad vision that Jim uses it as a plot device in a short story.

I also realize that I am an endangered minority on this point so I'll let this be my last word on the subject.

I think we are probably in agreement on 80 to 90% of the stuff about Butters. Much closer to 100% on the quoted portion.