A thought on the Winter Lady

[kbrizzle]

Since Mab is a very calculating person, I wondered why she felt the need to have twin daughters of her own (Maeve & Sarissa), given that she’s not really the maternal type. We have WoJ that Mab & Titania ascended their thrones around 1066, & have been in power since. I’m not sure how old Aurora was, but we have a different WoJ that Maeve (& Sarissa) were born in the 1700s (apparently their father was a random Austrian musician). This means that there must’ve been a few Winter Ladies between 1066 & the 1700s, & we know there have been 2 in the series so far.

My WAG here is that the Outsider plots were effective at targeting the Winter Ladies, including a couple who were likely disastrous - as a result, Mab decides the best way to deal with this is to birth a Lady (& a spare) herself to control the quality & succession of the mantle. This of course ultimately backfires with Maeve since Mab had birthed her for a purpose & was not capable of treating her as a daughter - she seems to be trying to rectify that mistake with Sarissa before Maeve nips that plan off (I do think this will lead to Mab & Titania finally talking again).

[Mira]

   I don't think we know how old Maeve was though when the mantle passed to her.  Even though supposedly she and Sarissa were identical twins, they were very different girls and apparently Mab favored one over the other.  Now it could be a small matter of Maeve being born a few minutes before Sarissa thus she was in training from the get go to be Lady, where as Sarissa was treated like a daughter and she and Mab apparently had a lot of interests like opera in common.  I can see Maeve resenting this as they grew up and finally rebelling as far as doing her duty once she became Lady.   So I don't think giving birth to Maeve was the problem so much as poor parenting on Mab's part.  Perhaps if she had paid Maeve as much motherly love and attention as she did Sarissa it might not have turned out so badly...  Before you jump me for calling it motherly love on Mab's part, since most think her incapable of it, I think Maeve would argue the point, because that is where she put the blame.

[g33k]

... WoJ that Maeve (& Sarissa) were born in the 1700s (apparently their father was a random Austrian musician) ...

Not "random," I suspect:  this fits their daddy being Mozart.

[Mira]

Not "random," I suspect:  this fits their daddy being Mozart.

Not to mention Sarissa and Mab's mutual love of opera.

[Avernite]

Not "random," I suspect:  this fits their daddy being Mozart.

I thought there was the alternative that it was Schubert instead, but that wouldn't fit with the 1700's. So do we know 1700's, or more 'about 300 years ago'?

[morriswalters]

Since Mab is a very calculating person, I wondered why she felt the need to have twin daughters of her own (Maeve & Sarissa), given that she’s not really the maternal type.

When was anyone able to choose to have twins?  In particular identical twins.

[Regenbogen]

I think that maybe Mab planned for one of the twins to become Lady eventually. The choice (if it even was one, for it could just have been physical proximity to the dieing current Lady; see Cold Days with Molly) fell on Maeve, because she chose to become Fae. Sarissa didn't. I think, Maeve also wanted to be the Winter Lady. Sarissa didn't.

[Mira]

I think that maybe Mab planned for one of the twins to become Lady eventually. The choice (if it even was one, for it could just have been physical proximity to the dieing current Lady; see Cold Days with Molly) fell on Maeve, because she chose to become Fae. Sarissa didn't. I think, Maeve also wanted to be the Winter Lady. Sarissa didn't.

  That isn't the impression I got of Maeve,  if she wanted it, she didn't want what went with it and resented her sister because of it.

[Bad Alias]

I thought the WoJ said 1800's. Doesn't really matter to the OP's logic.

They claim, identically, to not be identical twins in Cold Days.

Molly says there's a 150 year backlog of work for the Winter Lady. Does this mean Maeve was not doing her job for 150 years? Probably, but not definitely.

[Regenbogen]

I can imagine she wanted the position because of the power. But maybe couldn't deal with or did not see at that time time the disadvantages. Like the duties, the celibacy,...

I always had the impression that she was angry at Sarissa, because Maeve thought that she herself chose the wrong life but would not admit that even to herself.
It is mentioned somewhere that she behaved like a spoiled brat or something like that. So someone must have spoiled her. Mab.
I think the twins started out with the same education, the same love given or not given by Mab, but it was their choices that led them into their different lives.

[g33k]

When was anyone able to choose to have twins?

But:  faeries.

Narratively, they are made of pure handwavium.


(and traditionally, twins & twin-identity is a very faerie-tale-ish thing)

[morriswalters]

Yeah I got that. Have you given any thought to the mortality rate for Winter Ladies? There's the answer for why twins.  At the rate they burn through them Mab needs to get busy.  I nominate Harry.  Then he could have three kids.

[Bad Alias]

That fits the "torture Harry" mantra.

[g33k]

... Have you given any thought to the mortality rate for Winter Ladies? ...

I have the impression that the Knights' burn-rate is "supposed to be" much much faster than the Ladies.

It seems to be similar.

I think this is one of the signs that Nic & others are seeing, that tells them Jim will be writing the BAT any volume now...

[kbrizzle]

The point I was trying to make with this post is why did Mab feel the need to have kids in the first place. Im pretty sure she had twin girls because that’s what she want to have - you know she would be able to manipulate that into happening.

I think the point is that both Maeve & Sarissa were always going to be Ladies - Maeve just went first because of her personality. The other was the spare for if anything happened to the first one. The mistake Mab made was that like all humans, pre-Lady Maeve wanted a mother but Mab is ... Mab. Maeve probably thought she would make Mab proud of her/ more interested in her if she became Lady, however when she realized that Mab is all business, she starts neglecting her duties (acting out) to get her mother to pay attention to her. The kicker of course is that Mab did love Maeve, she just showed it in a very cold way.

@Mira
I think the problem was that Mab wanted to have kids so they would serve Winter, not for the joys of motherhood - you’re definitely right that had Mab been able to be remotely maternal, perhaps Maeve wouldn’t be the way she was.

@morris & g33k
The Lady burn rate is likely high, although I’d wager the Knights’ rate is even higher (less power & more dangerous job).

@Bad Alias
Yep 150 years is what Molly says, so we know Maeve must’ve been Lady for at least 150-200 years already.