Peace talks excerpt indications

[Arjan]

It was not a potion that did all the work for him because. Peabody did many things with the younger wizards that probably required a more sensitive individualised approach. A potion to increase lust is one thing and will probably work on most people and is not inherently evil. It does not alter the mind directly and it can help some couples if taken voluntarily and knowingly in a controlled environment.

As Ebenezar said the ink assisted with mental manipulation probably by making the subject more vulnerable, Peabody still had to do the work.

[Mira]

It was not a potion that did all the work for him because. Peabody did many things with the younger wizards that probably required a more sensitive individualised approach. A potion to increase lust is one thing and will probably work on most people and is not inherently evil. It does not alter the mind directly and it can help some couples if taken voluntarily and knowingly in a controlled environment.

As Ebenezar said the ink assisted with mental manipulation probably by making the subject more vulnerable, Peabody still had to do the work.

   Yes, but mind manipulation while it breaks one of the Seven Laws isn't black magic,  so Peabody
would not stand out.   Harry did sense black magic in his duel with Cowl, however he didn't mention it as far as Kumori went, he also describes a nauseating greasy feel one gets when black magic is sent one's way.   If Peabody was using it at all the other wizards would have figured it out very quickly.

[Bad Alias]

Mind Control is black magic. See Proven Guilty, Chs. 5, 40, 42.

[Mira]

Mind Control is black magic. See Proven Guilty, Chs. 5, 40, 42.

 
  Mind control and making a mind vulnerable to suggestion by way of a potion are not quite the same, as in a love potion.  Mind control is physically going into someone's mind with your mind to manipulate him or her.  Peabody didn't do that, the ink made the person vulnerable to suggestion, he never went into anyone's mind like Molly did.   That is how he was able to get away with it for so many years.

[Arjan]

 
  Mind control and making a mind vulnerable to suggestion by way of a potion are not quite the same, as in a love potion.  Mind control is physically going into someone's mind with your mind to manipulate him or her.  Peabody didn't do that, the ink made the person vulnerable to suggestion, he never went into anyone's mind like Molly did.   That is how he was able to get away with it for so many years.

What Peabody did in Luccio’s mind went quite far and he did all kind of things with young wizzards minds.

[Mira]

What Peabody did in Luccio’s mind went quite far and he did all kind of things with young wizzards minds.

But without the ink it is doubtful that he'd be able to do it.  He didn't do it to Harry mainly because he
never came in contact with the ink.  He should not have been able to go into any wizard mind, even
the young one without them being aware of it.

[wardenferry419]

   What I am wondering....

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Is who is the mortal calling these bad boys up?  Could it be Marcone?   He might be thinking he needs some real muscle for leverage.

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Maybe this is the book where Elaine shows her true colors as...dun.dun.Dun! Kumori!

[toodeep]

   What I am wondering....

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Is who is the mortal calling these bad boys up?  Could it be Marcone?   He might be thinking he needs some real muscle for leverage.

What I am wondering is why every time something like this happens they seem to look at each other and go, "someone is summoning outsiders" and then go fight the outsiders, and never seem to do crap all to find/stop the summoners?  I mean, Harry should have captured one of the humans on the barges attacking his island and turned them over to Mab.  That would have been useful as she could have ripped information they never even knew they had out of them.

[toodeep]

Peabody didn't do that, the ink made the person vulnerable to suggestion, he never went into anyone's mind like Molly did.   That is how he was able to get away with it for so many years.

I don't think you turn people into walking time bombs and assassins without mind magic.  I think the drugs in the ink only made them more susceptible to the magic, it didn't do the work itself.  If there were drugs out there that allowed that without magic the CIA would rule the world.  I think it is probably that an experienced wizard, already fairly set in their ways before turning to black magic, and probably watching to make sure they avoid the strongest stains of it, can "wash" their aura or do other activities to hide their contamination if they try.  As I recall, Luccio didn't really pick up anything from Kemmler or his magic in her encounter with him, and yet by that time he was an accomplished necromancer, so I think it must be possible to hide at least some degree of black magic use.

[Bad Alias]

[1] What I am wondering is why every time something like this happens they seem to look at each other and go, "someone is summoning outsiders" and then go fight the outsiders, and never seem to do crap all to find/stop the summoners?  [2] I mean, Harry should have captured one of the humans on the barges attacking his island and turned them over to Mab.  That would have been useful as she could have ripped information they never even knew they had out of them.

As to 1, yes. As to 2, he was a little busy that night.

As to the ink, I'll have to wait until I read that book again, but I thought the ink was thaumaturgical link specially suited for mind magic.

[morriswalters]

What I am wondering is why every time something like this happens they seem to look at each other and go, "someone is summoning outsiders" and then go fight the outsiders, and never seem to do crap all to find/stop the summoners?  I mean, Harry should have captured one of the humans on the barges attacking his island and turned them over to Mab.  That would have been useful as she could have ripped information they never even knew they had out of them.

When someone sets your house on fire you are more interested in saving your house and your life than catching the guy with the match. And in White Knight he feeds Madge to  the demon she summoned.

[Arjan]

When someone sets your house on fire you are more interested in saving your house and your life than catching the guy with the match. And in White Knight he feeds Madge to  the demon she summoned.

In White KNight there is no real mystery about who summoned the outsiders for what purpose. In Cold Days Harry was not really in a position to take prisoners.

[Sir Huron Stone]

But without the ink it is doubtful that he'd be able to do it.  He didn't do it to Harry mainly because he
never came in contact with the ink.  He should not have been able to go into any wizard mind, even
the young one without them being aware of it.

If I remember correctly though, the ink was meant more for the Senior Council. As they said, the older the wizard, the harder it is to get them to bend. Though it has more to do with the mind being settled in the body, vs the actual age of said mind, hence why Lucio could be manipulated. The ink was there to help him push and nudge the senior council into doing what he wanted.

Plus, remember, the young ones were baptised in fire. They got plenty of education on the hot and heavy evocation side, but they probably skimped out on the mind manipulation portion of the curriculum. And they were just so dang young. They probably had no clue what was going on, since they'd never experienced it before. Most of them were anywhere from 16 to what, 25, maybe 30 for the oldest like Carlos? I'm 24 and I'm still experiencing all sorts of new stuff.

Never underestimate inexperience.

[Mira]

If I remember correctly though, the ink was meant more for the Senior Council. As they said, the older the wizard, the harder it is to get them to bend. Though it has more to do with the mind being settled in the body, vs the actual age of said mind, hence why Lucio could be manipulated. The ink was there to help him push and nudge the senior council into doing what he wanted.

Plus, remember, the young ones were baptised in fire. They got plenty of education on the hot and heavy evocation side, but they probably skimped out on the mind manipulation portion of the curriculum. And they were just so dang young. They probably had no clue what was going on, since they'd never experienced it before. Most of them were anywhere from 16 to what, 25, maybe 30 for the oldest like Carlos? I'm 24 and I'm still experiencing all sorts of new stuff.

Never underestimate inexperience.

I don't but at the same time relatively young Harry recognized when Corpsetaker was in his head back in Dead Beat.   His defenses sucked because the Council frowns on anything having to do with mind magic including defenses against the likes of Corpsetaker, but my point is, he knewshe was in his head.   We all assume that Peabody used some kind of mind magic in addition to the ink.
Perhaps, what I am saying the ink not only made the mind vulnerable, it made it impossible for the mind to perceive that anyone was in it.  Or Peabody didn't need to get into anyone's head, the ink did all the damage and all he had to do is suggest.   All that was needed was a drug, administered by
the ink that entered the bloodstream via the skin and was designed to target the part of the brain that deals with will power and judgement.  It was also subtle in how it worked because the effects
were so slight that no one noticed that Luccio or Eb or anyone else on the Council was acting different.  The effects were cumulative and affected all that came in contact, so it was simply not noticed.  It would have continued except for the fact that Harry had never came in contact and was determined to clear Morgan.   Had Peabody succeeded in getting Harry to sign papers like he was supposed to do, Peabody would have won.

[Arjan]

Corpstaker was doing a heavy mental assault which is probably as easy to detect as it is difficult to defend against with Harry’s limited knowledge at the time. Peabody was doing the subtle thing which is more difficult to detect.