Christmas Eve story - Huge question

[Avernite]

Okay, so that just means Harry should've gotten Molly pregnant then?   

[Mira]

It is the nature of the mantle and it imposes that nature upon the bearer of the mantle. It is not what the bearer was, it is what it becomes.

Which is the case with priest and nuns, it isn't about what they were, it is what they become once
they have taken their vows.  In the case of the mantle, celibacy is magically enforced but it is the same principle.

[Arjan]

Which is the case with priest and nuns, it isn't about what they were, it is what they become once
they have taken their vows.  In the case of the mantle, celibacy is magically enforced but it is the same principle.

Except the story is different. This is all about being unreachable and frustrated.

[Mira]

Except the story is different. This is all about being unreachable and frustrated.

   What has that to do with anything?   One doesn't have to be a virgin to be both unreachable and
or frustrated. 

 Here is another question, Maeve and Sarissa are Mab's daughters, at some point unless they are
the product of virgin birth, she had to have sex..  One assumes that Mab was also Winter Lady at some point in her career, so did she have sex and have her daughters before she became Lady?  Was there a special exception like perhaps having sex with her Knight which resulted in the birth of her daughters?  Or after she became Queen?  Then she had sex and had her daughters...  If the first, then one doesn't have to be a virgin to become the Lady, Mab already had given birth.  If the second, depending on who she has sex with she doesn't have to stay a virgin to be the Lady, her Knight the exception? If the third, well the Queen can have sex with whomever she wants.. Actually we know that one for a fact since she had sex with Harry when he became her knight.

[morriswalters]

You are made to believe that Fix was sleeping with Lily in Proven Guilty.  Everybody in the books get laid with the exception of Molly and maybe Ramirez. Molly gets turned into an evil virgin faerie.

[Mira]

You are made to believe that Fix was sleeping with Lily in Proven Guilty.  Everybody in the books get laid with the exception of Molly and maybe Ramirez. Molly gets turned into an evil virgin faerie.

Like I said, it may not be about having sex but more about with whom she has sex with.  Fix did become Lily's Knight.   It could be that Maeve just wasn't attracted to Slate or he her, hence her complete frustration sexually.  Molly might demand sex with Harry at some point, who knows?

[nadia.skylark]

Here is another question, Maeve and Sarissa are Mab's daughters, at some point unless they are
the product of virgin birth, she had to have sex..  One assumes that Mab was also Winter Lady at some point in her career, so did she have sex and have her daughters before she became Lady?  Was there a special exception like perhaps having sex with her Knight which resulted in the birth of her daughters?  Or after she became Queen?  Then she had sex and had her daughters...  If the first, then one doesn't have to be a virgin to become the Lady, Mab already had given birth.  If the second, depending on who she has sex with she doesn't have to stay a virgin to be the Lady, her Knight the exception? If the third, well the Queen can have sex with whomever she wants.. Actually we know that one for a fact since she had sex with Harry when he became her knight.

The timeline of events is that Mab became queen well before she had Maeve and Sarissa.

[Bad Alias]

The deal is that the Lady can't be a mother.

"Maiden, mother, and crone. You are the maiden, Lady Molly. And for you to be otherwise, to become a mother, would be to destroy the mantle of power you wear.

The mantle could just make the Ladies sterile,

[e]xcept the story is different. This is all about being unreachable and frustrated.

I similarly think that the Ladies can't have sex with fairies for the same reason Arjan states and some others.

Now, does maiden have the original meaning of "female virgin," or does it mean "not a mother?" Can someone who doesn't fit the mantle be remade by the mantle? We know that a man can't become a queen, but we also know the mantle does shape their personalities, so I think the jury's still out on that one. I don't see a really good argument either way.

[Arjan]

Like I said, it may not be about having sex but more about with whom she has sex with.  Fix did become Lily's Knight.   It could be that Maeve just wasn't attracted to Slate or he her, hence her complete frustration sexually.  Molly might demand sex with Harry at some point, who knows?

Maeve was recruiting the knights so if she could have sex with her knight she would have chosen one she found attractive. I do not think Fix and Lily had sex. At one point she complained about not being able to raise a family.

Sidhe  are old school so I do not think they separate sex from becoming a mother, certainly the mantle won’t do that.

[Mira]

Maeve was recruiting the knights so if she could have sex with her knight she would have chosen one she found attractive. I do not think Fix and Lily had sex. At one point she complained about not being able to raise a family.

Sidhe  are old school so I do not think they separate sex from becoming a mother, certainly the mantle won’t do that.

 However none of that answers the question as to whether or not the Lady has to be a virgin upon
receiving the mantle of Lady.  Once she becomes Lady, celibacy is one of the things the mantle demands of her. 

[Arjan]

However none of that answers the question as to whether or not the Lady has to be a virgin upon
receiving the mantle of Lady.  Once she becomes Lady, celibacy is one of the things the mantle demands of her.

I think the mantle selects the best possible available host based on how close the hosts nature is to the mantles nature. It is never ideal so the mantle will start pushing the host to change nature in its direction.

[Avernite]

I think the mantle selects the best possible available host based on how close the hosts nature is to the mantles nature. It is never ideal so the mantle will start pushing the host to change nature in its direction.

Makes you feel for Molly, if she was a poorer fit to the Summer mantle than a woman who had been living (and fighting, subtly and unsubtly) in Arctis Tor for centuries.

[Mira]

I think the mantle selects the best possible available host based on how close the hosts nature is to the mantles nature. It is never ideal so the mantle will start pushing the host to change nature in its direction.

  In theory,  according to Mother Summer, "The mantle returns to the nearest reflection of itself."
 But Lily was hardly that, and in fact Aurora turned her into a statue so she could hide the Summer
Knight's mantle inside her.  Then when she was transformed back and Aurora died, the Lady's mantle went to her as the nearest reflection.  I am not sure though how near to the mantle's nature Lily was.

[nadia.skylark]

In theory,  according to Mother Summer, "The mantle returns to the nearest reflection of itself."
 But Lily was hardly that, and in fact Aurora turned her into a statue so she could hide the Summer
Knight's mantle inside her.  Then when she was transformed back and Aurora died, the Lady's mantle went to her as the nearest reflection.  I am not sure though how near to the mantle's nature Lily was.

I think Mother Summer was talking specifically about the Knight mantles there, and saying that only one of the summer queens could have hidden it.

[Bad Alias]

  In theory,  according to Mother Summer, "The mantle returns to the nearest reflection of itself."
 But Lily was hardly that, and in fact Aurora turned her into a statue so she could hide the Summer
Knight's mantle inside her.  Then when she was transformed back and Aurora died, the Lady's mantle went to her as the nearest reflection.  I am not sure though how near to the mantle's nature Lily was.

Are you talking about the Lady's or Knight's mantle going to Lily?

Knight's: When Ronald Reuel died, the Knight's mantle went to Aurora because she was the nearest Summer Queen. She chose Lily as the Knight.

Lady's: The Knight's mantle is part of the Queens. So the Knight would already have a part of the Lady in them, so it makes sense that the Lady's mantle would go to a Knight with the proper plumbing.

Or at least that's my take.