Christmas Eve story - Huge question

[Mira]

Are you talking about the Lady's or Knight's mantle going to Lily?

Knight's: When Ronald Reuel died, the Knight's mantle went to Aurora because she was the nearest Summer Queen. She chose Lily as the Knight.

  She turned Lily into a statue then put the mantle in her,  so while technically you can say that Aurora had chosen her as her new knight, she didn't really because there was still an imbalance.  Which is the point, Aurora wanted to start a war, so she turned Lily into a statue and hid the knight's mantle inside it.

[nadia.skylark]

She turned Lily into a statue then put the mantle in her,  so while technically you can say that Aurora had chosen her as her new knight, she didn't really because there was still an imbalance.  Which is the point, Aurora wanted to start a war, so she turned Lily into a statue and hid the knight's mantle inside it.

We don't have confirmation of the order of events. It could also be that she made Lily the Knight and then turned her into a statue. Honestly, I think this is more likely, since I tend to suspect that bestowing the Knight mantle requires the person who it's bestowed on to make the choice to accept it, given that the point of the Knight is that they have free will.

[Bad Alias]

We don't have confirmation of the order of events. It could also be that she made Lily the Knight and then turned her into a statue. Honestly, I think this is more likely, since I tend to suspect that bestowing the Knight mantle requires the person who it's bestowed on to make the choice to accept it, given that the point of the Knight is that they have free will.

I agree.

[Mira]

We don't have confirmation of the order of events. It could also be that she made Lily the Knight and then turned her into a statue. Honestly, I think this is more likely, since I tend to suspect that bestowing the Knight mantle requires the person who it's bestowed on to make the choice to accept it, given that the point of the Knight is that they have free will.

  Actually we do, it is when Harry visits the Mothers, the reason for the imbalance and the coming
war is no one seems to know where the Knight's mantle is.   It is hidden and the only person thought able to do that is Mab, so she is being accused of it.  No, Aurora turned Lily into a statue, then hid the mantle in it.   They would know if it was accepted, no one did, it was hidden by Aurora.  That
is what Harry figured out in the cottage in his visit with the Mothers, that is why he was given the Unraveling.

[nadia.skylark]

Actually we do, it is when Harry visits the Mothers, the reason for the imbalance and the coming
war is no one seems to know where the Knight's mantle is.   It is hidden and the only person thought able to do that is Mab, so she is being accused of it.  No, Aurora turned Lily into a statue, then hid the mantle in it.   They would know if it was accepted, no one did, it was hidden by Aurora.  That
is what Harry figured out in the cottage in his visit with the Mothers, that is why he was given the Unraveling.

You're wrong. Here's the quote:

"But think, wizard. How was it done? Theft is theft, whether the prize is food, or riches, or beauty or power."
Since it didn't seem to matter either way, I did my thinking out loud. "When something is stolen a couple of things can happen to it. It can be carried away where it cannot be reached."
"Hoarded," Summer put in. "Such as the dragons do."
"Yeah, okay. Uh, it can be destroyed."
"No, it can't," Mother Winter said. "Your own sage tells you that. The German fellow with the wild hair."
"Einstein," I muttered. "Okay, the, but it can be rendered valueless. Or it can be sold to someone else."
Mother Summer nodded. "Both which are change."
I held up a hand. "Hold it, hold it. Look, asI understand it, this power of the Summer Knight, his mantle, it can't just exist on its own. It has to be inside a vessel."
"Yes," Winter murmured. "Within one of the Queens, or within the Knight."
"And it isn't with one of the Queens."
"True," Summer said. "We would sense it, were it so."
"So it's already in another Knight," I said. "But if that was true, there'd be no imbalance." I scratched at my head, and as I did it slowly dawned on me. "Unless it had been changed. the new Knight had been changed. Transformed into something else. Something that left the power trapped, inert, useless."
Both of them regarded me steadily, silently.
"All right," I said. "I have my question."
"Ask it," they said together.
"How does the mantle pass on from one Knight to the next?"
Mother Summer smiled, but the expression was a grim one. "It returns to the nearest reflection of itself. She, in turn, chooses the next Knight."
That meant that only one of the Queens of Summer could be behind it. Titania was out already--she had begun the war against Mab because she didn't know where the mantle was. Mother Summer would not have been telling me this information if she'd been the one to do it. That left only one person.
"Stars and stones," I muttered. "Aurora."

No confirmation of order of events.

[Mira]

This is the important bit:

I held up a hand. "Hold it, hold it. Look, asI understand it, this power of the Summer Knight, his mantle, it can't just exist on its own. It has to be inside a vessel."
"Yes," Winter murmured. "Within one of the Queens, or within the Knight."
"And it isn't with one of the Queens."
"True," Summer said. "We would sense it, were it so."
"So it's already in another Knight," I said. "But if that was true, there'd be no imbalance."

1]  The mantle has to be in a vessel, cannot exist on it's own.
2] Within a Queen or a Knight, or the Mothers would sense it. Which they don't.
3] If it were already in a Knight, the Mothers would sense it, which they don't.  More
importantly there would be no imbalance. 
4]

"Unless it had been changed. the new Knight had been changed. Transformed into something else. Something that left the power trapped, inert, useless."

1] Lily made new Knight 2] immediately transformed into something else, statue, power trapped, not sensed by Queens or the Mothers.  There are your order of events.   

[Avernite]

This is the important bit:

1]  The mantle has to be in a vessel, cannot exist on it's own.
2] Within a Queen or a Knight, or the Mothers would sense it. Which they don't.
3] If it were already in a Knight, the Mothers would sense it, which they don't.  More
importantly there would be no imbalance. 
4]
1] Lily made new Knight 2] immediately transformed into something else, statue, power trapped, not sensed by Queens or the Mothers.  There are your order of events.

You are aware that is the exact opposite order from what you posted 3 posts up?

[nadia.skylark]

2] Within a Queen or a Knight, or the Mothers would sense it. Which they don't.
3] If it were already in a Knight, the Mothers would sense it, which they don't.

In point of fact, it is only said that the Mothers would sense the Knight mantle if it were within one of the Queens, not if it were in a Knight.

You are aware that is the exact opposite order from what you posted 3 posts up?

This. Mira, you said that Lily was turned into a statue and then was made the Summer Knight. This was the order of events that I was objecting to.

[Mira]

In point of fact, it is only said that the Mothers would sense the Knight mantle if it were within one of the Queens, not if it were in a Knight.

This. Mira, you said that Lily was turned into a statue and then was made the Summer Knight. This was the order of events that I was objecting to.

Not so,  because if it were in a Knight there would be no imbalance.  I admit I may have been mistaken, memory sucks sometimes.  However you are also wrong, the Mother's would know if it had been in a Knight, because there would be no imbalance. The Queens would know, because there would be no imbalance.  Unless it was transformed which it was..  Now you'd think it would be hard to transform a Knight once the mantle is established into a statue.. Unless it happened so quickly the mantle entered Lily and instantly she was transformed. 

[nadia.skylark]

Not so,  because if it were in a Knight there would be no imbalance.

Unless the Knight was transformed.

However you are also wrong, the Mother's would know if it had been in a Knight, because there would be no imbalance.

Unless the Knight was transformed.

The Queens would know, because there would be no imbalance.

Unless the Knight was transformed.

Unless it was transformed which it was.

See? You know this. So what even was the point of those three sentences?

Now you'd think it would be hard to transform a Knight once the mantle is established into a statue.

Why? I don't think it would be hard for a Summer Queen to do to a Summer Knight anything she wanted. It's not like Lily was known for her strong will, and she wouldn't have the first clue how to use the power in the mantle if she wanted to--which, given that Aurora was her friend and almost certainly didn't tell her what she was planning, she almost certainly wouldn't have.

And I think turning a Knight into a statue would be much easier than trying to stick the mantle into a statue. I seriously doubt the mantle could be put into a statue that wasn't also a person, since if it could be then there would be no reason for Aurora not to just do that--and given that the Lily-statue was so much a statue that even a normal counter-spell from Aurora (who cast the spell) wouldn't un-statue her, and an Unraveling from Mother Winter was needed, it seems far more likely than not that the mantle would have treated someone trying to put it in statue-Lily as someone trying to put it in a statue, not a person.