Unidentified Winter Knight Abilities

[Mira]

I wonder if Jim is telling us something here. Harry has been getting lectures from Uriel about the importance of free will. Maybe Harry will finally get that confidence in himself someday and actually take up Lasciel's coin, but be the master of the coin, much like Nicodimus is the master of Anduriel.

Don't see that happening,  and for the record, Nic isn't the master, he just thinks he is.

[Kindler]

I'd like to add that Mab smashed Harry's head into an elevator hard enough to leave a Harry's Head-Shaped dent in it, and Harry walked away without a problem.

Blows to the head like that are pretty damn dangerous. I've seen my share of concussions over the years, and that's the exact kind of hit that should have caused one (sudden, a hit for which Harry could not brace, and with likely much more than the 60 g's typically cited as the approximate amount of force to cause a concussion on impact). Plus all of that force was focused on Harry's head. The elevator denting robbed the hit of some of its force, but not enough for Harry to just... get up and walk away a minute later.

From that one example, I hypothesize that either:

1. Harry did get a concussion and he simply didn't notice it (that happens; one guy in my old HEMA group didn't realize he had a concussion until a couple days later) until some time after Skin Game;
2. Harry got a concussion, but the Winter Mantle suppressed the typical symptoms immediately (dizziness, memory loss, etc.) and it accelerated the healing process so much that he recovered quickly, before the suppression stopped working;
3. Harry was not hit hard enough to get a concussion;
4. The Winter Mantle has some kind of... durability enhancement ability, so Harry can withstand more punishment. Meaning he actually IS more resistant to injury, not just the pain that comes with it.
5. Harry has been hit on the head so many times that this new concussion just blended into the background of his old head injuries (if he wasn't a wizard, he'd be a poster child for CTE).

I think two and four are most likely.

[spiritofair]

Don't see that happening,  and for the record, Nic isn't the master, he just thinks he is.

You may be correct, but saying it is so doesn't mean it is. Unless there is a WOJ to that effect, I prefer to not just assume.

[Arjan]

You may be correct, but saying it is so doesn't mean it is. Unless there is a WOJ to that effect, I prefer to not just assume.

Jim does not have to say it explicitly. It is shown in the story. He is damned as long as he keeps the thing and a whole order of knights can not save him from it.

You can of course trust the alternative facts brought to you by the fallen but I would't advice it. They lie.

[g33k]

You may be correct, but saying it is so doesn't mean it is. Unless there is a WOJ to that effect, I prefer to not just assume.

. It's pretty clear in the scene near the end of Skin Game.  Harry and Michael are about to fight Nic.  You see their arguments begin to sway him the regrets & doubt... And then you see the Pride sweep in, and lock him onto his path...  Pride, of course, being the defining sin of the Fall, and a key recurring element of Nic's as he has faced Harry through the years.

Nic is given so much free rein because he has bought in to Anduriel's agenda as his own:  Nic does the stuff Anduriel wants, on his own initiative; Anduriel never needs to use the Big Stick, because bunny-Nic is happily eating the carrot out of his hand...

[Mira]

. It's pretty clear in the scene near the end of Skin Game.  Harry and Michael are about to fight Nic.  You see their arguments begin to sway him the regrets & doubt... And then you see the Pride sweep in, and lock him onto his path...  Pride, of course, being the defining sin of the Fall, and a key recurring element of Nic's as he has faced Harry through the years.

Nic is given so much free rein because he has bought in to Anduriel's agenda as his own:  Nic does the stuff Anduriel wants, on his own initiative; Anduriel never needs to use the Big Stick, because bunny-Nic is happily eating the carrot out of his hand...

Exactly, that is the trap that Lasciel tried to set for Harry saying that he'd be "partners" with her like Nic and Anduriel and not her slave, but Harry didn't fall for it..  Or perhaps more to the point after that soul gaze the first time he met up with the Denarians back in Death Masks, he didn't buy the idea that any partnership with one of the Fallen could be equal and free.

[spiritofair]

. It's pretty clear in the scene near the end of Skin Game.  Harry and Michael are about to fight Nic.  You see their arguments begin to sway him the regrets & doubt... And then you see the Pride sweep in, and lock him onto his path...  Pride, of course, being the defining sin of the Fall, and a key recurring element of Nic's as he has faced Harry through the years.

Nic is given so much free rein because he has bought in to Anduriel's agenda as his own:  Nic does the stuff Anduriel wants, on his own initiative; Anduriel never needs to use the Big Stick, because bunny-Nic is happily eating the carrot out of his hand...

I can buy that.

[zetadog]

both Lloyd Slate and Fix did not seem to be wizards.
So they could probably not do as much with the mantles as a wizard or sorcerer can.

[Arjan]

both Lloyd Slate and Fix did not seem to be wizards.
So they could probably not do as much with the mantles as a wizard or sorcerer can.

Mab would not have put all that effort into recruiting Harry if every bloke on the street would do.

[Mira]

Mab would not have put all that effort into recruiting Harry if every bloke on the street would do.

Exactly, and Slate is proof enough of that.   A mere bloke is malleable, the job and an insane Lady shapes him and he becomes a mere killer which is counter productive.   Where as it is Harry that does the shaping, and though capable of killing he is no killer and is of use to Mab.

[toodeep]

I'd like to add that Mab smashed Harry's head into an elevator hard enough to leave a Harry's Head-Shaped dent in it, and Harry walked away without a problem....

Oh, good point.  There was also when the Ick kicked him and he indicated he should have been well and thoroughly smooshed, and he wasn't, so the winter knight must add a degree of armor/internal protection beyond just pain ignoring and healing.  Additionally, I would add looking back on the fight with the Ick and others that he is probably faster than normal humans as well.  I know that with the "limitors" off he is stronger than most humans, but that doesn't necessarily give speed - speed is a combination of mental and physical reaction times, not just physical, and yet he seems to be faster than previously (i.e. he could outrun Susan who was supernaturally strong/fast) and had the mental reaction speed to handle the increased physical reaction improvement without even noticing.

[toodeep]

Mab would not have put all that effort into recruiting Harry if every bloke on the street would do.

Mab went through the trouble because Harry has numerous abilities/advantages that tie directly into dealing with what is coming.  Beyond a normal winter knight, he has:
1.  Wizard skills
2.  soulfire
3.  starborne
4.  An growing understanding of the importance of free will

He is much more effective when he uses his own will, rather than the directives of the mantle (as seen when he overruled the mantle on how to fight Fix).  Previous knights pretty much only had the power of the mantle to go on, and most didn't realize the power just pure human nature could bring to the role.

Interestingly, we've seen Fix throw fire at the very least, and possibly do other "magic" things, so the mantle does bring at least a degree of its own magic to the bearer even when they aren't a wizard.  I think that is why Harry's "infringa" comes either from a different pool of magical energy than his wizard magic, or comes from the same pool but is deeply discounted.  Not sure which.

[Arjan]

Mab went through the trouble because Harry has numerous abilities/advantages that tie directly into dealing with what is coming.  Beyond a normal winter knight, he has:
1.  Wizard skills
2.  soulfire
3.  starborne
4.  An growing understanding of the importance of free will

He is much more effective when he uses his own will, rather than the directives of the mantle (as seen when he overruled the mantle on how to fight Fix).  Previous knights pretty much only had the power of the mantle to go on, and most didn't realize the power just pure human nature could bring to the role.

Interestingly, we've seen Fix throw fire at the very least, and possibly do other "magic" things, so the mantle does bring at least a degree of its own magic to the bearer even when they aren't a wizard.  I think that is why Harry's "infringa" comes either from a different pool of magical energy than his wizard magic, or comes from the same pool but is deeply discounted.  Not sure which.

There are three things here. Power, talent and training. If you add a lot of power you have to be able to do some things with a little talent and some training. Especially since the power gives you the confidence to try it and the belief you can succeed.

[morriswalters]

Slate almost takes Harry in Summer Knight.  And in the cases we've seen, it isn't a magic slug fest, since Harry can't use lethal magic against humans.  While the Winter Knights and Summer Knights prior to Harry were unencumbered by that limit.  Harry has experience, Fix doesn't. And it showed in their fight.

For Mab, we really don't know. But she knows everything Lea knows.  So if Harry is special and Lea knows why, then Mab probably knows.  Soulfire was a happy accident for Mab and I expect Starborns are always wizards.

[Mira]

Slate almost takes Harry in Summer Knight.  And in the cases we've seen, it isn't a magic slug fest, since Harry can't use lethal magic against humans.  While the Winter Knights and Summer Knights prior to Harry were unencumbered by that limit.  Harry has experience, Fix doesn't. And it showed in their fight.

  Not really though,   unlike Slate, Harry, as was said about King Alfred the Great,  "you won't beat him because the bastard thinks.."  Bernard Conwell, "The Last Kingdom."  Great books and a wonderful three season series on Netflix..