Denarians and/or Circle in Storm Front?

[Mira]

IIRC, the kid only cited HWWBh's name... which was sufficient to get Harry engaged.  He didn't say anything the Outsider would have "known," but he somehow saw & identified the Outsider's stain on Harry's aura.

  But the point is,  how would this strung out kid even know?  How would he know that Harry was a wizard even?  Here is what he said..
page 135 Storm Front, hardback

"Wizard!" he trumpeted.  "Wizard!  I see you! I see you, wizard!  I see the things that follow, those who walk before and He Who Walks Behind!  They come, they come for you!"

For starters if the is a regular vanilla kid who happens to be strung out on Three Eye, yes he maybe
able to see some stuff out of the ordinary, but it won't give a name to what he is seeing.  He wouldn't know either a wizard or an Outsider if he saw one, let along call out the Outsider by name, which he did.

[spiritofair]

  But the point is,  how would this strung out kid even know?  How would he know that Harry was a wizard even?  Here is what he said..
page 135 Storm Front, hardback

For starters if the is a regular vanilla kid who happens to be strung out on Three Eye, yes he maybe
able to see some stuff out of the ordinary, but it won't give a name to what he is seeing.  He wouldn't know either a wizard or an Outsider if he saw one, let along call out the Outsider by name, which he did.

Good point! Did the 3-eye give an outsider access to mortals? If so, holy cow!

[morriswalters]

Wrong point of view.  In Storm Front Jim has Harry use the Third Eye.  His wizard sight.  The kid is seeing the real Harry by using the drug to see the same effect.

For reasons I don't have time to go into now, I am marked, indelibly, with the remnants of the presence of a hunter-spirit, a sort of spectral hit man known as He Who Walks Behind. I had beaten long odds in surviving the enemy of mine who had called up He Who Walks Behind and sent him after me—but even though the hunter-spirit had never gotten to me, the mark could still be seen upon me by those who knew how, by using the Third Sight, stretching out behind me like a long and horribly shaped shadow. Sort of a spiritual scar to remind me of the encounter.

Jim is still feeling out the mechanics.  He also refers to He Who Walks Behind as a hunter spirit. And little Amanda Beckitt was shot in a shootout between some Jamaicans and Marcone's thugs.

Murphy's jaw tensed, little motions at the corners of her face. Then she said, "Greg and Helen Beckitt. Three years ago, their daughter, Amanda, was killed in a cross fire. Johnny Marcone's thugs were shooting it out with some of the Jamaican gang that was trying to muscle in on the territory back then. One of them shot the little girl. She lived for three weeks in intensive care and died when they took her off life support."

Early days and some serious retconning in later books.

[g33k]

Wrong point of view.  In Storm Front Jim has Harry use the Third Eye.  His wizard sight.  The kid is seeing the real Harry by using the drug to see the same effect ...

Yep!  So the mundane kid had an artificially-induced Third Eye.  It saw Harry as a wizard, and it saw HWWBh's mark on him.  Nothing specifically and only known by HWWBh and/or Harry, but definitely Third Eye material, stuff that could only be seen that way.

... Jim is still feeling out the mechanics.  He also refers to He Who Walks Behind as a hunter spirit...

Nope.  Harry pretty explicitly didn't know HWWBh was an Outsider, at this point.

One of Harry's Supernatural Hottie Crew (Lash, IIRC, in White Night?) breaks the news to Harry that his earlier duel with HWWBh was actually a duel with an Outsider (and one of the more badass of them, at that).

 

[Mira]

Wrong point of view.  In Storm Front Jim has Harry use the Third Eye.  His wizard sight.  The kid is seeing the real Harry by using the drug to see the same effect.

Wrong!  This is the kid relaying this knowledge to Harry, which shocks the hell out of Harry.  Here is what Harry is saying on the next page.

But only a wizard had that kind of vision, the abilty to sense the auras and manifestation of magical phenomena.  And that junkie was no wizard,

The problem is the kid while yeah, seeing all this stuff maybe, wouldn't have a clue of what he was seeing.  He might be able with the drug to see creatures etc following Harry,  but he shouldn't be
 able to call it out by it's name, He Who Walks Behind.   He might see something is very different about Harry looking though the Three Eye, but since he doesn't know any wizards how does he know he is a wizard?   He has no point of reference because he has never been part of that world.

Yep!  So the mundane kid had an artificially-induced Third Eye.  It saw Harry as a wizard, and it saw HWWBh's mark on him.  Nothing specifically and only known by HWWBh and/or Harry, but definitely Third Eye material, stuff that could only be seen that way.

Perhaps seen that way, but the kid still shouldn't be able to put a name on them because it is beyond
his experience.  It is like a cave man being dumped in our time and exposed to air planes and cars, he might describe them after a fashion but he wouldn't say, "oh look at the air plane and oh look at the car.."  Because these things do not exist with in his experience.   

[g33k]

Wrong!  This is the kid relaying this knowledge to Harry, which shocks the hell out of Harry.  Here is what Harry is saying on the next page.
The problem is the kid while yeah, seeing all this stuff maybe, wouldn't have a clue of what he was seeing.  He might be able with the drug to see creatures etc following Harry,  but he shouldn't be
 able to call it out by it's name, He Who Walks Behind.   He might see something is very different about Harry looking though the Three Eye, but since he doesn't know any wizards how does he know he is a wizard?   He has no point of reference because he has never been part of that world.
Perhaps seen that way, but the kid still shouldn't be able to put a name on them because it is beyond
his experience.  It is like a cave man being dumped in our time and exposed to air planes and cars, he might describe them after a fashion but he wouldn't say, "oh look at the air plane and oh look at the car.."  Because these things do not exist with in his experience.

Gonna WAG here.

But I'm gonna assert it as a not-very-Wild WAG.

What the kid saw didn't NEED interpretation.

A "wizard" is a known thing, our culture has the referents.  Here's this guy whose Aura glows with power, festooned with magical trinkets that shine on their own, etc etc etc... whatcha gonna call it?  A Hephalump?  "Yo! Mr. Shiny Dude!" ?   What's more, the kid was likely an addict, had been using ThreeEye for a while.  Has seen other supernatural stuff.  Knew it was real.  And suddenly... hardcore badass magical human.  That's... well, a wizard.

Slightly Wilder, but still not very:  I will suggest that the "stain" of HWWBh might be the kind of thing you don't so much see in a visual sense, as experience.  Including the only possible name it could have... because magic.  I assert this as not-terribly-Wild because... well, because the kid DID know the Name, off of no more than seeing Harry's Aura.

===

Possible secondary WAG -- the kid had previously seen HWWBh, and recognized the Aura from that!  Maybe the kid was being used by Sells -- or somebody working with Sells -- in rituals or whatever, and there had been a summoning; maybe HWWBh had been sent to kill somebody and the kid saw it; maybe LOTS of options... but whatever, maybe the kid had personal experience to line up with Harry's Aura.

[Mira]

A "wizard" is a known thing, our culture has the referents.  Here's this guy whose Aura glows with power, festooned with magical trinkets that shine on their own, etc etc etc... whatcha gonna call it?  A Hephalump?  "Yo! Mr. Shiny Dude!" ?   What's more, the kid was likely an addict, had been using ThreeEye for a while.  Has seen other supernatural stuff.  Knew it was real.  And suddenly... hardcore badass magical human.  That's... well, a wizard.

Unless someone told him what he was seeing, he still wouldn't know what he was seeing?  Actually, Shiny Dude makes as much sense....

Possible secondary WAG -- the kid had previously seen HWWBh, and recognized the Aura from that!  Maybe the kid was being used by Sells -- or somebody working with Sells -- in rituals or whatever, and there had been a summoning; maybe HWWBh had been sent to kill somebody and the kid saw it; maybe LOTS of options... but whatever, maybe the kid had personal experience to line up with Harry's Aura.

But did Sells have any clue of the connection between Harry and HWWB?  I think not, and it still doesn't make any sense that he'd know HWWB by name...

[morriswalters]

The sight given him by the drug gave him everything.  He Who Walks Behind.   You read it from your point of view, but spoken it isn't purely a name, more a description of what he does.  The capitalization is for the reader to point out the Walker as something special.

[Mira]

The sight given him by the drug gave him everything.  He Who Walks Behind.   You read it from your point of view, but spoken it isn't purely a name, more a description of what he does.  The capitalization is for the reader to point out the Walker as something special.

My point of view had nothing to do about it, it is what Harry says about it.  He says how wizards learn to control the Third Eye, to keep it closed unless they need to use it.  He goes on the say the the drug is opening it on untrained vanilla mortals, because it just wasn't causing ordinary hallucinations.

page 137 Storm Front, bolding and italics mine.

I shivered.  If the drug was real, if it really did open the Third Eye in mortals instead of just ordinary hallucinations upon it's users, then it was far more dangerous than it seemed, even with the deleterious effects demonstrated by the junkie I had tackled.  Even if a user didn't go mad from seeing too many horrible or otherworldly things, he might see through the illusions and disguises of any of a number of beings that passed among mankind regularly, unseen---which could compel such creatures to act in defense, for fear of being revealed.  Double jeopardy.

I think the above is more significant than we first think, the making of Third Eye wasn't just a way
to make money or even gain power over Marcone's empire,  but another way to open another front in the coming war.   If beings that otherwise be allies in the fight against the Enemy were now engaged in protecting themselves against mortals it would be an advantage.

[morriswalters]

Your point of view has everything to do with it.  If this was a visual medium Jim could do it another way, but if he doesn't put a label on it, it loses its punch.  So wizard  and he who walks behind makes sense. Anything else doesn't. The assumption Jim hands you is that the sight interpreted what he saw, for him.

Your second quote has all the meat.  Why Three Eye?  To reveal things that someone wants concealed.  Wizards for instance.  Wide use of Three Eye would have destroyed the masquerade.

[Mira]

Your point of view has everything to do with it.  If this was a visual medium Jim could do it another way, but if he doesn't put a label on it, it loses its punch.  So wizard  and he who walks behind makes sense. Anything else doesn't. The assumption Jim hands you is that the sight interpreted what he saw, for him.

Huh?   You are not making any sense...   Let's read the quote again shall we?  134-135 Storm Front

The young man looked at me, and his eyes rounded and dialated, until I thought they had turned into huge black coins dotted with his bloodshot eyeballs.  Hiseyes rolled back into his head until he could hardly have been able to see, and he started to shout in a clarion voice

It is the kid strung out on Three Eye looking at Harry..  Harry isn't using his wizard sight, he isn't interpreting anything..  He is just startled by this kid looking at him and now shouting at him...

"Wizard!"  he trumpeted.  "Wizard!  I see you!  I see you  wizard!

That is the kid recognizing Harry for what he is, though how would he know a wizard when he saw him?  How would he know a wizard from someone else with a magical aura? The kid yelling at Harry,  "Wizard!"  Vocal, no interrelation needed from Harry or us... 
Next line, this is the strung out kid further telling Harry.

"I see you wizard!  I see the things that follow, those that walk before and He Who Walks Behind! They come, they come for you!"

It's the kid who sees Harry not only as a wizard, but that he was mixed up with the likes of He Who Walks Behind.  Not only would this kid not know a wizard on sight, but how in the hell would know an Outsider if he saw one? Let alone his name?

Harry goes on to say lower down on page 136 that he is marked by his encounter with Outsiders,  he goes on to say

But only a wizard had had that kind of vision, the ability to sense the auras and manifestations of magical phenomena.  And that junkie was no wizard.

That is the mystery, not just that Three Eye is real, it enabled the kid to see auras and magical phenomena, but it still doesn't explain how he'd know that Harry was a wizard or HWWB by name.
If you reread his shout out to Harry, "I see you wizard!"  I get the feeling that the kid was sending
a message to Harry from someone..  The kid was somehow taught what to say if he ran into Harry a head of time, someone who knew the very mention of HWWB would freak Harry out, which it did a bit... Then the question becomes, who taught him?

[g33k]

...  Wide use of Three Eye would have destroyed the masquerade.

Not destroyed it, I think.  Not very quickly.

It's really hard for normals not to dismiss this as just more drug-induced hallucinations and psychoses (yeah, paranoia / psychoisis / etc are "normal" side-effects of many street drugs).  Normals WANT to believe that everything's "normal," right?

Can you imagine a ThreeEye druggie, off his high and actually wanting to do the right thing, dragging a beat cop -- or even a detective for whom he's a stoolie -- over to Thomas Raith, saying, "No, really... he's like, this VAMPIRE, he's got, like, this DEMON INSIDE HIM, it makes him HUNGER for people, for their life!!!"

I can certainly imagine that...

But I can't imagine that sort of thing actually damaging the masquerade.

[Bad Alias]

I subscribe to early installment weirdness (EIW) as the reason the junkie new Harry was a wizard and knew the name He Who Walks Behind, but for the sake of argument, I will attempt to explain why he could have known that even if it wasn't EIW. The sight works differently for everyone. I have no idea which book it's in, but Harry says something about how Carlos's sight. I recall something about colors and/or music. Harry describes his own sight as the vaguest he's heard of.

So it could be that this kid see's images with labels as to what they are. Or he sees images and just knows what those images are commonly called. It's actually easy to explain how he could know that Harry was a wizard. He could see him with that Mickey Mouse blue wizard hat with stars on it or some other common cultural reference to wizards. Coming up with something he could see that would explain why he said He Who Walks Behind is harder to understand.

Another point is that Harry is not surprised that the someone using the sight says He Who Walks Behind but that the kid is using the sight at all.

Mira's point that three-eye is about destroying or damaging the masquerade seems like the most likely answer I've seen. Through the novels and WoJ we've seen that if supernatural violence reaches a certain point, the masquerade will begin to be questioned. If three-eye were as widely used as pot, opiates, or meth; a sufficient percent of supernaturals responded to being discovered with violence + a sufficient number of users used enough to be convinced of the truth of the supernatural but not be addicts; then the masquerade would definitely be damaged.

@g33k: I'm pretty sure it was Bob in White Night. I'm 100% sure that's the right book.

I'm fairly certain that the sight had EIW in Storm Front because Harry see's the future of everything he looks at when using it at the lake house. Other than "the sight coming in" thing in Small Favor and the soulgaze with Molly, does anyone recall any connection between the sight and seeing/predicting the future?

[morriswalters]

@Bad Alias

I'm speaking from a Doylist perspective.  So your POV, versus Dresden's.  If Butcher doesn't make the quote special by giving the effect a voice, the reader has nothing to hang his hat on.  And the kid might as well be taking some potent Acid. To the average person magic doesn't exist, so nothing the user would see would make any sense, since he couldn't put a name to any of it.

@g33k
I can imagine it going to a FBI lab and starting some very interesting discussions.

[g33k]

@g33k: I'm pretty sure it was Bob in White Night. I'm 100% sure that's the right book.

No, it was Lash.

About 1/3 of the way through Ch.41, while Harry's brain is sped-up, Lash finally switches sides, and tells Harry about having anti-Outsider powers, and that the demon he nailed back when he was 16 was an Outsider.