Denarians and/or Circle in Storm Front?

[Mira]

Sells' three-eye ring had been pushing on Marcone's conventional drugs business territory for a while before, though.

 But that would suggest that it would be Marcone hitting on Sells and not the other way around.

[g33k]

... remember the kid strung out on Three Eye who told Harry stuff that only HWB would know? ...

IIRC, the kid only cited HWWBh's name... which was sufficient to get Harry engaged.  He didn't say anything the Outsider would have "known," but he somehow saw & identified the Outsider's stain on Harry's aura.

[morriswalters]

The quote is....

"Wizard!" he trumpeted. "Wizard! I see you! I see you, wizard! I see the things that follow, those who walk before and He Who Walks Behind! They come, they come for you!"

[Bad Alias]

@g33k: I don't think any of the players knew Harry well enough to manipulate him to where they wanted. They never have, Nicodemus maybe more than the rest. And I don't buy the "it happened this way, so that's what the powers that be planned." If that's the case, Harry is the one of the most boring and inconsequential characters. He's just a pawn with no agency.

[g33k]

@g33k: I don't think any of the players knew Harry well enough to manipulate him to where they wanted. They never have, Nicodemus maybe more than the rest.

The Loa, Ulsharavas, asks some pretty pointed questions.  I think they are equally obvious to any of the Big Players.  Even petty little Bianca knew enough to predict Harry would Die Doing the Right Thing.  I don't think Harry is a complete cipher... although I agree that the BadGuys&Gals underestimation of Harry is a recurrent theme!

But, for example, I'm pretty sure that Mab had a huge amount of the events in Proven Guilty laid out, and that Harry (and most of the others) operated broadly (VERY broadly) as Mab expected... up to and including dumping power into the Winterwell (I suspect the Summerfire was a nasty surprise; the Starborn power was what she was after).

It's not 100% established as fact, but after it happened Harry suspected Lydia had been used to manipulate him into giving up a powerful spirit-shield talisman.

And of course we know the Fallen got Harry to commit suicide.

What the Bad Guys lack is the ability to predict over the long term, when Harry's particular mix of { selfless X stubborn X insightful X Starborn X ?? } is involved.  They may have identified each of the traits, but some of those (like selfless) are essentially beyond their understanding, and it screws up their ability to lay out a maze that the Dresden-rat will navigate as they predict.
 

... And I don't buy the "it happened this way, so that's what the powers that be planned."

  No, I agree.  Mostly, Harry goes off the rails and smashes stuff, particularly including BadGuy plans.  But they find him to be predictable enough that they can engage him, suck him into their plots, engage in specific tactical manipulations.  He boards the railway using the ticket given by the BadGuys... but then swtiches trains, changes which track goes where, and derails at least one train.

[Bad Alias]

Unless Harry is playing right into the BadGuys hands, I don't know why any of them would try to involve Harry in their plans (other than revenge and/or stupidity). I could see why a good guy might want to.

Bianca expected Harry to die doing the right thing. This was after two years of planning focused on Harry. She was wrong. I know Ortega was surprised when Harry "did the right thing" in Grave Peril, but I don't recall if Bianca was too. Harry certainly didn't die like she planned. And if Harry died in Changes, he didn't die doing the right thing.

Everything else is 4+ books in where I can easily believe that the BadGuys planned on Harry getting involved, or at least should have. I still think most of the "planning of Dresden to get involved" was more contingency than "this will further my plans." The "this will further my plans" group were all morons. Members of this camp include  Nicodemus (every time), Lara in White Night, Mavra. That's 5 out of 15 books. Not counting the people in the next paragraph, are there any others who either explicitly planned on Harry furthering their plans or did something that makes it obvious that they planned it?

People who involve Harry and are successful in their goals are Mab every time, Marcone in Fool Moon and Skin Game, Uriel in a couple of stories explicitly and maybe every other story not explicitly, various members of the Senior Council, Odin (arguably, but not necessarily), Thomas, Mavra (arguably twice), Murphy, maybe Lara from above. Most of these are people (loosely speaking) coming up to Harry and asking him to do a job. Mab is usually straight forward, for a fairy Queen. Only a couple of people manipulated Harry from afar.

People who involved Harry to get revenge were Bianca, Arianna, Madrigal. Maybe Mavra and Nicodemus, but that would have been more of a bonus.

[g33k]

Unless Harry is playing right into the BadGuys hands, I don't know why any of them would try to involve Harry in their plans (other than revenge and/or stupidity) ...

I think the Bad Guys may be beginning to learn their lesson. :-)     Someone said there's a WoJ (I haven't seen it) that at this point, Nicodemus is terrified of Dresden.

But previously?  If (as I WAG) a bunch of the Big Players know about the Starborn thing -- know what it is, know (or strongly suspect) that Harry is one -- then there's really good reason to involve him:  they want to turn him to their side (or if they're Outsider (or ally thereof) get him Killed Doing the Right Thing (or maybe turn him to Team O? because maybe he'd be as USEFUL to them as an ally, as he is DANGEROUS to them as an enemy... another WAG, that; and an especially W one!).

Lots of Supernatural Hotness coming Dresden's way, and he's usually hard-up, and has a weakness for women...  Temptations for power, too...  Situations with knife-edge moral choices of aaallllll sorts...

Plenty of reason to get Dresden involved!  Including (as Marcone notes more than once) Harry's penchant for wrecking BadGuy(tm) plans -- if you're a BadGuy(tm), just clear your forces from the field, aim him at a rival, and... let Harry be Harry.

... Ortega was surprised when Harry "did the right thing" in Grave Peril, but I don't recall if Bianca was too ...

  Oh yes, she very much was surprised.  She evidently thought she had overwhelming advantage, and could force Harry to capitulate.

... Not counting the people in the next paragraph, are there any others who either explicitly planned on Harry furthering their plans or did something that makes it obvious that they planned it?

Harry points out (as part of deducing the Black Council) that the large amount of overpowered magic coming to underprepared practitioners in Chicago has not just "strained" but outright broken the bonds of credulity.  Someone(s) has been sending them there (apparently aimed at Harry, I think... although I don't think Harry knows it yet).

Similarly, things like having every kind of werewolf hit Chi-town simultaneously isn't credible as a "coincidence."

I don't count things like Nicodemus coming to Chicago to launch a Plague-Curse, that's just a tactical thing with the transit hub; also, a Big Player moving personally (not a puppetmaster trying to engage Dresden from behind a catspaw and two cut-outs).

[spiritofair]

   Harry described Marcone from the soul gaze as a man as cold as a featureless stainless steel fridge..
That is the kind of man that even the type of murder that his man suffered wouldn't be freaked at all
by it.  So yeah, the soul gaze told Harry a lot about what Marcone would do.. That is one of the points of them, by giving a read on the type of person you are dealing with, thus predicting what they did do, would do, and will do..

The woman that was killed with Tommy Tomm was Sells' wife's sister Jennifer Stanton. She was the target... she was encouraging Monica Sells to leave Victor. It was just luck that she was with Tommy Tomm... or somehow Victor knew they would be together.

[Mira]

The woman that was killed with Tommy Tomm was Sells' wife's sister Jennifer Stanton. She was the target... she was encouraging Monica Sells to leave Victor. It was just luck that she was with Tommy Tomm... or somehow Victor knew they would be together.

Which completely excludes Marcone from the original motive,  Tommy Tomm just happened to be the poor smuck making love to her at the time.   Or Tommy was the target and it is a sad coincidence that Jennifer was there..

[morriswalters]

Or he got a twofer.

[g33k]

The woman that was killed with Tommy Tomm was Sells' wife's sister Jennifer Stanton ...

I've seen this claimed before, but I don't recall it from the book.

Where do we learn that Monica Sells' sister was Jennifer Stanton?

[morriswalters]

"All right," I said. I leaned against the kitchen counter. "You know Jennifer Stanton, don't you. You're related to her."
Her expression didn't change. "We have our mother's eyes," she confirmed. "My little sister was always the rebel. She ran away to become an actress, but became a whore instead. It suited her, in her own way. I always wanted her to stop, but I don't think she wanted to. I'm not sure she knew how."

[Bad Alias]

Similarly, things like having every kind of werewolf hit Chi-town simultaneously isn't credible as a "coincidence."

Not really. The only one that is coincidental is the Hexen Wolves, and that was clearly a plot by someone to do something. The lycanthropes were based in Chicago. MacFinn was opposing Marcone because he was a loup garou and wanted the "northwest passage." Tera taught the Alpha's to be werewolves because she came to Chicago with MacFinn. (Her motivations are still a mystery). They were together because they were both wolf/human shapeshifters.

I have a feeling that the more important magical events happen somewhere, the more important magical events will happen somewhere. Grave Peril weakened the barrier between the Nevernever and the mortal world in Chicago. After that, the Ladies moved to Chicago. Things snowballed after that.

I've seen this claimed before, but I don't recall it from the book.

Where do we learn that Monica Sells' sister was Jennifer Stanton?

In Monica's kitchen with all the cows. It's explicitly stated that she was going to rat on Victor to Marcone through Tommy Tom. We don't need to guess at any of this. (Morris beat me to it, but I already typed it).

[Mira]

I've seen this claimed before, but I don't recall it from the book.

Where do we learn that Monica Sells' sister was Jennifer Stanton?

I didn't remember it either, but I did find it in the book. 

[g33k]

TYVM morriswalters & Bad Alias!

Now I feel stupid.  I recognized the scene as I began reading the quote.