Denarians and/or Circle in Storm Front?

[Yuillegan]

I know this doesn't quite fit the pattern, but could there be Denarian or members of the Circle in Storm Front?

Someone had to give Victor Sells the knowledge of the heart-ripping spell, which Vadderung implied was the same one as the Red Court uses in Changes.

Someone had to give Sells his Three Eye recipe, or at least guide him on how to invent such a thing.

Someone had to give him the knowledge of how to summon the Toad Demon.

My bet is the Circle. We are introduced to Bianca in this book, and we know that the Circle/Black Council wanted the war between Wizards and the Vampire Courts to happen. This whole book, the heart-ripping spell in particular, led Harry to Bianca. Where she ended up killing her assistant, and held Harry responsible.

Interestingly, Harry says that no Vampire sorcerer could pull that spell off (outside of the Nevernever). My belief is that Harry was wrong and that he was too naive and arrogant to believe any being but a mortal could do it. He also mistakenly believed that it was more likely a woman who did it as "women hate better". Aside from that ridiculous unsubstantiated statement, I also believe that these little issues were a result of Jim being such a young and inexperienced writer at the time. So perhaps much was retconned.

But if Harry's initial hypothesis is (still) true and even a Vampire Sorcerer couldn't pull it off outside of the Nevernever, I think that indicates that knowing Bianca couldn't pull it off they (the Circle/Black Council) had to use someone else.

The Circle killed a girl from the Velvet Room and one of Marcone's employees. So to me that seems plausible enough that they might have wished to get the only local loudmouth wizard to investigate, knowing he did consulting work for S.I. and knowing he might aggravate Bianca. Hell perhaps they actually knew something like that event would happen, as Wizards gain foresight over time AND clearly many supernatural types have prescient powers.

The whole book is a set up for the war, in order to end the White Council and establish an unobstructed New World Order (assuming that is the Circle's end game).

[g33k]

I know this doesn't quite fit the pattern, but could there be Denarian or members of the Circle in Storm Front?

I /absolutely/ believe "the Circle" or "the Black Council" (or some agent(s) of theirs) was behind things in Storm Front.

As you say, the Heart-Ripper was likely from the Red Court, who Harry pegged as a Black-Council catspaw.

But it could also have been Papa Raith, who seems to have had a copy of the spell (was planning to use it on Thomas and Harry, to break Mama-Maggie's death-curse).  But we suspect from Raith's magic-immunity ward, and know from the appearance of an Outsider at the big curse at the end, that Raith had Outsider backing... which we suspect points to Circle/Blouncil involvement.

I wonder if the Reds got it from Raith, or vice versa... or if each were given it by a 3rd party (e.g. the Circle).

Three-Eye was another OP tool given to Sells; the effect is too potent and too precise to be the formula of a rando-warlock newly come to power (as per his wife's testimony).  A good potion like that (or at least, the formula for it) is really hard to create!

It's possible Sells just stumbled into some Grimoire of the Toad, and the Lightning-Fuel Spell, but the pattern is that Sells was being fed a bunch of OP tools.

Note the repeating pattern, BTW, of "minor/moderate badguy gets a serious powerup from being given OP tools."  Burnt-out FBI agents get hexenwulf belts; Bianca gets Mavra-tutored, Kravos gets a power-up'ed (twice!), etc...

I'm... not really seeing Denarians anywhere in this.  Except maybe Thorned Namshiel, who seems to be the best "wizard" amongst the Denarians, AND a member of the Black Council... and thus may have been the agent who created the Heart Ripper and other magics, and gave them to designated agents of the Circle, or the Blouncil, or whatever we're calling it this week.  Of course, we suspect several very-senior & very-powerful human wizards (e.g. Cowl) are also on the Blouncil, and could equally-well have done it without calling Nammie for any "pointers".

===

Also, I'm pretty sure we have WoJ that the whole series, including Storm Front, is a contiguous arc; not just "Harry's Story" but all part of the Bad Guys' grand plot (I mean, besides the grand "Jim Butcher gets rich and famous" plot).
 

[Bad Alias]

The "mysterious bad guy(s) behind everything" was definitely behind Sells.

Raith wasn't using the heart exploding spell. He was just using Thomas as a sacrifice for the entropy spell. Two different spells.

[g33k]

Raith wasn't using the heart exploding spell. He was just using Thomas as a sacrifice for the entropy spell. Two different spells.

Raith was breaking the Death-Curse so he could feed again; THAT was (supposed to be) the Heart-Exploder; and it needed one (or both?) of Maggie LeFay's blood-children to do it.

But yes, the entropy-curse is a different spell, and ALSO came from Raith's library of magic (and WTF, dude... where'd he GET all those uber-powerful spells? (the Blouncil, obvs)  And more to the point, at this point:  does Lara have them now?  Why isn't she using them?  If she doesn't have them... who does?)

[Bad Alias]

Raith was breaking the death curse by killing Maggie's children. He was doing this by sacrificing Thomas as fuel for the entropy curse targeting Harry. It was being done at a specific time. The heart exploding curse doesn't have to be done at a certain time.

Why do you think Raith was using the heart exploding curse in Blood Rites? The only reasons I can see for thinking that is that they tried to kill Thomas by stabbing him in the heart and Harry and Thomas are related.

As to Lord Raith's library, I don't think we can assume where it came from or even that it all came from one place. I imagine he collected a great deal of it from various sources. The only reason I see to suspect the heart exploding spell came from Raith's library is the theory that he was Sell's employer. That theory is possible, but I don't think it's more likely than not.

Lara probably has the library. Maybe she is using the library. It's probably unlikely for her to use that specific spell to deal with problems. Not every solution calls for the same spell that Harry would be likely to recognize if used where he would become aware of the death.

[Snark Knight]

But it could also have been Papa Raith, who seems to have had a copy of the spell (was planning to use it on Thomas and Harry, to break Mama-Maggie's death-curse).

He wasn't planning to use the heart-ripper in BR. Thomas was going to be the blood sacrifice to point HWWBh's entropy curse at Harry ... because Lord Raith is a complexity addict who just couldn't do the job with two bullets.

That said, he very well might have also been setting Sells up with spells from his black magic library. Sells' employer sounded like a white court punny front company name, in hindsight.

[Kindler]

because Lord Raith is a complexity addict who just couldn't do the job with two bullets.

This is especially glaring when you consider that he was already at the point where he was getting his hands dirty. He personally captured Murphy and Harry, so it's not like he was hiding behind eighteen layers of cutouts and pawns anymore. Just... just shoot them in the head. Bam. You win!

Bond Villain Stupidity indeed. HE EVEN LEAVES THE ROOM!

[Mira]

   Oh yeah, someone from the Circle guided a depressed Victor Sells to those books in the first
place.   I also doubt that he thought up the idea to cook up the Three Eye to addict kids. Also
someone had to introduce him to the Beckitts, and they had to further be convinced to get
involved in a sex orgy to call up a frog demon and power a spell to rip out the hearts of a couple
they had never met miles away.   I believe what Harry said about what happened to Victor was
true, black magic is addictive and he was in over his head from the beginning.  Having said that
he was a mere tool,  it was no accident as to who was targeted to set up a chain reaction so Bianca
would be further inspired as she was at the party in Grave Peril.  I doubt that Lord Raith had anything to do with any of that.   His family branch of the White Court is much more subtle than
that, the whole series of events in Storm Front is just to messy for them to be a part of it. 

[morriswalters]

This is especially glaring when you consider that he was already at the point where he was getting his hands dirty. He personally captured Murphy and Harry, so it's not like he was hiding behind eighteen layers of cutouts and pawns anymore. Just... just shoot them in the head. Bam. You win!

Bond Villain Stupidity indeed. HE EVEN LEAVES THE ROOM!

Bond villain stupidity works, because if didn't Bond would die in the first act.  Raith makes Lara look  oh so much more dangerous by acting like a Bond villain. She's smart and he's stupid. Maggie stuck it to him on the way out the door, and twisted. And smiled, even though she knew she was f**ked.  All the women in his life did what they did because he was a pompous ass.

[Snark Knight]

Having said that he was a mere tool,  it was no accident as to who was targeted to set up a chain reaction so Bianca would be further inspired as she was at the party in Grave Peril.  I doubt that Lord Raith had anything to do with any of that.   His family branch of the White Court is much more subtle than
that, the whole series of events in Storm Front is just to messy for them to be a part of it.

Are you suggesting Bianca's employee was the real target there? I thought she was collateral damage of attacking Marcone's lieutenant - Sells' whole turf war was with Marcone.

The 'two-fer' being deliberate would have required careful timing to strike just as they were intimate enough to get both with one use of the curse. I kind of doubt Sells would have been up to prepping the curse ritual and spying through shadows on them to time it that closely.

And, granted, exploding hearts is a bit overt for Lord Raith. But if his involvement was to give Sells some black magic spell books and point him at Marcone, he might not have been micromanaging the particulars of how Sells went about it. It's more important that the proxy not be tied back to him than that the proxy works particularly elegantly himself. The Circle master could readily have been Cowl, too, though.

[Mira]

Are you suggesting Bianca's employee was the real target there? I thought she was collateral damage of attacking Marcone's lieutenant - Sells' whole turf war was with Marcone.

   No, what I am saying is Victor was used as a hit man by someone because he didn't know either party.  Ripping someone's heart out, even from miles away is a very personal killing.

The problem with saying Marcone was the real target is at that point though it rapidly changed,
he was still on the fringe of the supernatural world at that point.  So the crime itself made no
sense at all on a lot of levels.   

[morriswalters]

In terms of the plot, the killing was a message.  I can reach you anywhere, at any moment.  And you use the tools that you are good with.  In this case magic and ritual.  So a message directed at Marcone.  And he would have known what it was.  Much as everyone knows what bodies hanging off overpasses in Mexico is communicating.

[Mira]

In terms of the plot, the killing was a message.  I can reach you anywhere, at any moment.  And you use the tools that you are good with.  In this case magic and ritual.  So a message directed at Marcone.  And he would have known what it was.  Much as everyone knows what bodies hanging off overpasses in Mexico is communicating.

 Except that Marcone didn't want Harry to look into it,  on the contrary..  In the soul gaze Harry got
no indication that Marcone saw it as a message of any kind to him.  So if it was the kind of message to Marcone that you are implying it failed totally.   Marcone wanted to deal with it in his own way
without interference.   If it was intended as a message to Marcone, who ever sent it was totally
misreading the man.

[g33k]

... If it was intended as a message to Marcone, who ever sent it was totally misreading the man.

This seems to me to be very, very possible!  Well into "probable" in fact...   

...  In the soul gaze Harry got no indication that Marcone saw it as a message of any kind to him...

I don't think a soulgaze works that way.  It's totally non-telepathic, there's nothing about current situations, tactical evaluations, planning, etc.

[Mira]

I don't think a soulgaze works that way.  It's totally non-telepathic, there's nothing about current situations, tactical evaluations, planning, etc.

   Harry described Marcone from the soul gaze as a man as cold as a featureless stainless steel fridge..
That is the kind of man that even the type of murder that his man suffered wouldn't be freaked at all
by it.  So yeah, the soul gaze told Harry a lot about what Marcone would do.. That is one of the points of them, by giving a read on the type of person you are dealing with, thus predicting what they did do, would do, and will do..