The Next Knight

[g33k]

Not if he rejects noose and coin and accepts the chance of redemption and embraces the meaning of the Grail.  If the Grail can give eternal life or at least preserve him, it could be a game changer for Nic.  Because we know give up the coin etc and you go back to your real age and begin to age normally.. Since Nic is a couple of thousand years old, give or take he'd just turn to dust...

Hmm.  One of us is missing something, here.

Like, I think you just began by saying "Not if..." and then replicated my points.

So were you disagreeing with me, or agreeing?   

[Bad Alias]

Since Nic is a couple of thousand years old, give or take he'd just turn to dust.

He could have a few years in him. Quintus Cassius made it to Dead Beat and didn't die of natural causes. He was probably a Roman.

[Mira]

He could have a few years in him. Quintus Cassius made it to Dead Beat and didn't die of natural causes. He was probably a Roman.

I don't think he was as old as Nic.   He didn't die of natural causes because Mouse broke his neck, but clearly he was aging at a very rapid pace, that is one reason why he was so desperate to take up another coin.

I was agreeing with you g33K..

[dspringer1]

I know Marcone and Thomas are popular candidates, but I just do not see either as possible.

Thomas is a full vampire.  He feeds on souls - no choice about it.   A Knight would not be allowed to feed on souls.  If Thomas managed to kill his demon/vampire part, then a Knight could be possible.

Marcone is a strong individual with a strongly defined "bright lines" in his morality.  But he is NOT a moral individual.   He can certainly be a heroic figure in the dresden universe if the circumstances are right.   He can (as stated) make an outstanding King or ruler or even Ally.  He has a tiger's soul - and it would take something very dramatic to change that.  And really seeing nothing, not even the recovery of the girl in the coma, changing that. 

Fundamentally, for me at least, the morality of the Knights is the essential requirement.   It is this combination of self-sacrifice and desire to do good that makes a Knight.   Thomas does not have that for anyone beyond his immediate family.  Marcone does not have that period.    A person can go through a transformation moment (like Sanya) that results in them rising to that Standard, but it must be profound to have that effect.   But I have not seen anything in the series to date that implies such a transformation for either Marcone or Thomas.   

[Mira]

Fundamentally, for me at least, the morality of the Knights is the essential requirement.   It is this combination of self-sacrifice and desire to do good that makes a Knight.   Thomas does not have that for anyone beyond his immediate family.  Marcone does not have that period.    A person can go through a transformation moment (like Sanya) that results in them rising to that Standard, but it must be profound to have that effect.   But I have not seen anything in the series to date that implies such a transformation for either Marcone or Thomas.   

That is why my vote goes to Nic,  just think of the drama of it, if he had such a conversion..  That doesn't mean that there won't be temporary Knights between now and the final BAT.  Harry won't hesitate to hand out the Sword if it is needed to someone suitable, but as we've seen that doesn't make him or her a Knight for the duration..

[dspringer1]

Totally -- Nic would have been ideal -- but I think that ship sailed with Skin Game.  I totally believe that one of the reasons Uriel risked so much was because of the possibility that Nic might change course.  That did not happen because not all good possibilities come true.

Hard for me to see what else might create a transformation moment for Nic. 

[Bad Alias]

I don't think he was as old as Nic.   He didn't die of natural causes because Mouse broke his neck, but clearly he was aging at a very rapid pace, that is one reason why he was so desperate to take up another coin.

He was in all likelihood Roman, so he probably couldn't be much younger than Nic. About 400 years at most. He survived for two years before being killed, i.e., he had at least two years in him, probably more. Nic would almost certainly survive long enough to take up a sword for a book or two. He definitely wouldn't just die on the spot and turn to dust, as we saw in Skin Game.

Thomas is a full vampire.  He feeds on souls - no choice about it.   A Knight would not be allowed to feed on souls.  If Thomas managed to kill his demon/vampire part, then a Knight could be possible.

...It is this combination of self-sacrifice and desire to do good that makes a Knight.   Thomas does not have that for anyone beyond his immediate family.

The predominant theory of Thomas being a Knight is that the Sword of Love kills the demon/frees Thomas from it when he takes up the Sword. His entire life between Blood Rights and Turn Coat is self sacrifice for the benefit of others. He was tortured into "accepting" his demon by a divine entity. It would be poetic for him to defeat his demon with the help of the Sword.

[Mira]

He was in all likelihood Roman, so he probably couldn't be much younger than Nic. About 400 years at most. He survived for two years before being killed, i.e., he had at least two years in him, probably more. Nic would almost certainly survive long enough to take up a sword for a book or two. He definitely wouldn't just die on the spot and turn to dust, as we saw in Skin Game.

While you are right, Harry says that Cassius is approximately  1,400 to 1,500 years of age and had faced him two years previously.   He did not have two or more years left in him as you put it...

page 357 paperback Dead  Beat

"Last time I saw you, you could have passed for forty."

Cassius stared at me for a moment more, and then leaned his bat on the floor.  " It was the result of losing my coin to you and your friends,"he said, voice creaking.  While I held my coin, Saluriel prevented age from  ravaging my body.  Now nature is collecting her due from me.  Plus interest.  "
He waved his stiff-fingered right hand, wrinkled, spotted, swollen with what looked like bad arthritis.  "If she has her way, I will be dead within the year."

And in Skin Game while Nic did take off his noose, and offer his coin to Murphy, he never gave it up.   So while you could be right he wouldn't turn to dust on the spot, there is no proof that he wouldn't because he didn't give up his coin in Skin Game.   Cassius is proof however of rapid aging after giving up the coin, Nic is that much older so who knows what would happen.

[morriswalters]

The question, "Is the noose what keeps Nic young or is it his fallen?", might be interesting in this context.  Also it will be interesting to see if Thomas survives Peace Talks, or or conversely, Justine.  JB likes to reuse the same gags over and over.  However if anyone in the damn book is owed a sword Murphy is.

[Mira]

The question, "Is the noose what keeps Nic young or is it his fallen?", might be interesting in this context.  Also it will be interesting to see if Thomas survives Peace Talks, or or conversely, Justine.  JB likes to reuse the same gags over and over.  However if anyone in the damn book is owed a sword Murphy is.

Um, perhaps but she isn't suited for one..... 

[Kindler]

The question, "Is the noose what keeps Nic young or is it his fallen?", might be interesting in this context.  Also it will be interesting to see if Thomas survives Peace Talks, or or conversely, Justine.  JB likes to reuse the same gags over and over.  However if anyone in the damn book is owed a sword Murphy is.

I think there's some redundancy between the two. Coins halt aging for the bearers, and the Noose gives a limited form of immortality (no, he's not an Immortal the way the Queens and some others are. That's Resurrective Immortality anyway, so not the same thing).

[123Chikadee]

Hm, yeah out of the three of them, Thomas, Marcone, and Nic, if they're given a moment where they can take the transformative opportunity that leads them to become sword-bearer(s), then Thomas is probably the one.
Hm, I think Murphy's time as a sword-bearer is done. Hope we see more of her thoughts on that.
Who else could work for the swords? 

[Bad Alias]

He did not have two or more years left in him as you put it...

...

And in Skin Game while Nic did take off his noose, and offer his coin to Murphy, he never gave it up.

Two years and eight months passed between Cassius losing his coin and him dying. http://www.jim-butcher.com/timeline. As always, feel free to check my math. That's what I meant by he had more than two years left in him. More than two years from the point he gave up the coin. Let's assume he'd be dead in two years and nine months. Let's go with him being 1,500 years old and Nic being 2,000. If Cassius had about three years, then Nic should have at least one year, probably 22 to 24 months. Furthermore, a lot of Cassius's physical problems were because Dresden beat him viciously.

Without looking away from Karrin, he dropped the Coin, and it fell to the icy sidewalk without bouncing, as if it had been made from something far heavier than lead. ... He reached up and undid the Noose tied about his throat, and let it fall to the ground beside the Coin.

Chapter 29.

[Mira]

Quote

    Without looking away from Karrin, he dropped the Coin, and it fell to the icy sidewalk without bouncing, as if it had been made from something far heavier than lead. ... He reached up and undid the Noose tied about his throat, and let it fall to the ground beside the Coin.

Doesn't matter,  it was a ploy to begin with, he never intended to really surrender it....  Murphy didn't accept the offer so technically he never gave up the coin, physically dropping it  isn't enough..  As soon as she tried to kill him the Sword shattered and it picked his coin back up and kicked the snot out of her.

Two years and eight months passed between Cassius losing his coin and him dying. http://www.jim-butcher.com/timeline. As always, feel free to check my math. That's what I meant by he had more than two years left in him

Huh???    In any case he was aging at an accelerated rate from the moment he gave up his coin... He went from a guy around forty to closer to eighty in two years..

[Bad Alias]

Doesn't matter,  it was a ploy to begin with, he never intended to really surrender it.

It shattered because he had given up the coin and surrendered. It doesn't matter if his actions were perfidy.

Murphy didn't accept the offer so technically he never gave up the coin, physically dropping it  isn't enough.

What's that got to do with whether or not he gave up the coin? No one accepted Sanya's surrender of his coin, but that didn't negate him giving it up.

Huh???    In any case he was aging at an accelerated rate from the moment he gave up his coin... He went from a guy around forty to closer to eighty in two years..

Death Masks to Dead Beat is two years and eight months. My point has never been that there won't be accelerated aging. My point has been that Nic will not turn to dust and will have time to operate as a Knight of the Cross for enough time to be relevant in the books.