Author Topic: What questions should Harry be asking?  (Read 19864 times)

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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What questions should Harry be asking?
« on: September 14, 2019, 07:39:36 PM »
The idea here is that Harry isn't the most introspective person.  When Harry finally starts to think things through he won't have many answers, but he should be able to think of some people, and not-people he can ask.  So what one question do you think Harry should be asking, and is there someone he should ask?  If you think another character should ask Harry a question, that's fine too.

I'll start.  I think Harry needs to learn Winter Law.  I have a feeling Molly won't be able to tell anything to Harry.  There's probably some Winter Queen compulsion about preventing the mortal help from becoming well informed, or Mab could just put a geas on her.  Harry should ask Ivy; assuming she's in PT, if she knows if there is a source on Winter Law that Harry could read.

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Offline apgrey

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Re: What questions should Harry be asking?
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2019, 08:48:45 PM »
  Harry should try to find out more about his mother.  There is a WOJ that there is something big about Margaret Le Fae that we don't know yet, and it will change a lot when we find out what it is.

APG

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: What questions should Harry be asking?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2019, 03:53:38 AM »
APG absolutely agree, even if you assume that Harry is pretty busy and obstinate - a detective would surely notice that his mother is quite involved in a lot of things that affect him still...could you find that WOJ?

Kurtin - I agree. Surely there is some lore, or an expert who could help him work out Winter Law. Or Summer Law. Or both.

But really what I think Harry should ask:

1) What is a starborn? He knows he is one and has done zero research on it. Mab, Leah, any faerie, Vadderung, probably the White Council should be able to help put this puzzle together.

2) What is the purpose of the Warden and the history of the role? Whilst off screen, Harry has figured some of it out, we haven't had any exposition on this. And the way Ebenezar talks about it still makes me think there is still more to be revealed.

3). What is beyond the Outer Gates? Who previously defended them? maybe a big no-no for the White Council, but Harry is barely White Council any more. He is involved in bigger issues, as a tool of greater powers. He needs to start talking to Angels, Fae, anyone to get some more information on the Outsiders. Or hell, even summon one.

4) What is the link between the Redeemer and the Outsiders? Skin Game provides a big connection between Christ, the Fae, The Greco-Roman pantheon and the Outsiders. Harry needs to find the point of connection.

5) What is going on with the inbetween with Captain Murphy etc. and who are the bad guys? Carmichael only partially agreed with Harry's statement of Fallen, even though he led him to that answer by pointing out the angel guard. I would be trying to talk to them via ectomancy.

6) What are the origins of the Vamps? Why are they so different yet considered similar? Why are they working together and yet against each other? What is the Outsider connection?

Of course, this will all get answered as it becomes necessary to the plot. So we will have to wait. But if I were Harry, I would slow down on the cases and get to the big questions as a priority. But I am not Harry, and Jim needs to sell books, so wait and see I guess.
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Offline 123Chikadee

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Re: What questions should Harry be asking?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2019, 05:12:22 PM »
This^^^
I know from the Doylist perspective, Harry can't know a lot of this stuff b/c if he knows too soon, it gets a bit easier for him, and that's not as fun. But yeah, not being introspective is one thing, but these are some pretty big questions that he's not asking.
Hm, maybe Molly could hint enough without outright telling him. But then, his mantle could provide the info if he asked it.
I'd say, he needs to ask how someone could get Nemfected so he can rule some people out. The best ones to ask would be Lea, Mab, Rashid, maybe the Mothers? If he asks of the fae, it'll come with a price tag of course but it'd be worth it a least.
For what's beyond the Outer Gates, it'd could be the multi-verse. Vadderung or Bob could help with that.
For a lot of these questions, he'd need to offer up something big to get any substantial answers. Course, letting Harry fumble around in the dark is a pretty stupid idea so I don't get why they don't just be a bit straighter with him.

Offline forumghost

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Re: What questions should Harry be asking?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2019, 06:51:19 AM »
Any questions would be a goid start, considering Hardy is wilfully ignorant on basically everything until it tries to kill him.

Hell, iirc in the first book he didn't even know that there were multiple vampire courts...

He's like, a Wizard that took Int as his dump stat.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: What questions should Harry be asking?
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2019, 06:07:06 PM »
Was his father murdered? If so, who, how, why?
How does Vaderung keep putting his fairy mantle on a shelf and taking off when it is needed?
More generally how his mantle works.
Any information he can get on previous Winter Knights.
What Martha Liberty meant by "you know what he was meant to be."

Offline g33k

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Re: What questions should Harry be asking?
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2019, 11:50:56 PM »
...  I think Harry needs to learn Winter Law ...

Yeah; Winter Law... and "care and maintenance (and retirement!) of a Mantle."

Dresden got a lot of magical training, and has Bob for more magic, but he's pretty weak on the whole "Faerie" thing.  Bob informed him on-screen about multiplicity of Queens, and about Knights...  All new to Harry at the time.

Now he IS a Knight, and has only the Knightly "training" that Mab saw fit to give him.

Mab.

Harry desperately need to get further (and non-biased) info.


...
1) What is a starborn? He knows he is one and has done zero research on it. Mab, Leah, any faerie, Vadderung, probably the White Council should be able to help put this puzzle together.

2) What is the purpose of the Warden and the history of the role? Whilst off screen, Harry has figured some of it out, we haven't had any exposition on this. And the way Ebenezar talks about it still makes me think there is still more to be revealed.
...

THESE.

They are a part of who Harry is; born Starborn, and bound in ritual of blood and power to Demonreach.  On the island, the intellectus is inside his head.

I'm kind of shocked that Harry Dresden isn't freaked-out over Something Else that has a piece of the inside of his head.

But most especially the whole Starborn thing... Barely-trained 16-yo Harry Dresden beat HWWBehind.  Yet Ebenezer -- wielding the freaking Blackstaff! -- reports that he (and other WC wizards!) would likely have died from Outsider attacks, if not for Micheal showing up with the Sword.  Harry needs to know about the whole Starborn bit.

===

Honestly, I think most of the rest of the list are... eh, maybe, nice-to-know stuff; stuff that's grown in significance because of all the fan theorizing, but not necessarily core to the upcoming BAT plotlines.

Offline OriginalTeemo

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Re: What questions should Harry be asking?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2019, 06:20:18 PM »
What do other people see when they soul gaze Harry? 

I've got this sneaking suspicion that Harry's conversation with his dad was a glimpse of his soul and the Jabberwocky is close at hand.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 06:24:24 PM by OriginalTeemo »

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: What questions should Harry be asking?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2019, 01:07:55 AM »
But most especially the whole Starborn thing... Barely-trained 16-yo Harry Dresden beat HWWBehind.  Yet Ebenezer -- wielding the freaking Blackstaff! -- reports that he (and other WC wizards!) would likely have died from Outsider attacks, if not for Micheal showing up with the Sword.  Harry needs to know about the whole Starborn bit.

I don't think that was a real fight. The flashback in GS makes it pretty clear that the Walker was there to manipulate Harry - it killed the gas station worker just to get Harry motivated to stand and fight, and expressed satisfaction about his reaction. It might not have counted on quite how volatile gas pumps can be to stand next to, but it also passed on plenty of opportunity to kill Harry. Lea even commented about it being about manipulating him toward violence.

I'm still not sure whether it was there of it's own initiative to influence Harry, or sent by someone else to push Harry into a confrontation with Justin, but it wasn't acting as an assassin like Harry thought at the time.

Offline Mira

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Re: What questions should Harry be asking?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2019, 10:37:30 AM »
I don't think that was a real fight. The flashback in GS makes it pretty clear that the Walker was there to manipulate Harry - it killed the gas station worker just to get Harry motivated to stand and fight, and expressed satisfaction about his reaction. It might not have counted on quite how volatile gas pumps can be to stand next to, but it also passed on plenty of opportunity to kill Harry. Lea even commented about it being about manipulating him toward violence.

I'm still not sure whether it was there of it's own initiative to influence Harry, or sent by someone else to push Harry into a confrontation with Justin, but it wasn't acting as an assassin like Harry thought at the time.

  Check out my theories on the question.   I think the powers that were using Justin to raise two possible star borns to be enforcers needed only one.  Thus when Justin successfully enthralled Elaine, Harry was no longer needed, so HWB was sent to kill him. 

Offline Sev Expar

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Re: What questions should Harry be asking?
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2019, 04:44:00 AM »
Having given this a lot of thought over the years: Harry's an investigator, a wizard. Two occupations that strongly imply a desire -- almost a need to know. To get answers.
Yet, none of the most pressing questions in his life seem to get put on the front burner. For most of the series we see Harry's busy week. The other fifty-one weeks he manages to not learn anything, not talk to anyone about these things.
Why?
Jim doesn't waste ideas, and Mab once removed Harry's memory of fire magic, and his blasting rod. And she did it so smoothly that until he was directly forced to acknowledge it, he never even questioned it.

Personally, I think there's an inhibitor placed in Harry's head that redirects him away from or around these kinds of questions. The person who placed it could have been Lea or Eb or Justin; they all had time and proximity and all of them could justify it to themselves one way or another. Heck, imagine the kind of potent subtle wind magics Justin could weave night after night over months or years.

Anyway, that's my take on the why not part of this...

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: What questions should Harry be asking?
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2019, 08:07:49 AM »
This^^^
I know from the Doylist perspective, Harry can't know a lot of this stuff b/c if he knows too soon, it gets a bit easier for him, and that's not as fun. But yeah, not being introspective is one thing, but these are some pretty big questions that he's not asking. ...

I would like it if we found out that in his off time between cases, Harry has been asking questions about some of these issues, but he hasn't found anyone or anything on the spooky side of the fence to give him any useful information.  Either Harry can't go to a demon like Chauncey because the price is too high, other beings that wouldn't charge as much don't have useful information to trade or are afraid of crossing more powerful beings by giving Harry the information he needs.  That would be more satisfying what we are currently left with.

Just to pick one issue as an example; it's one thing for Harry not to want to know just how dark his mother may have gone before she redeemed herself.  I could understand that, but to also avoid thinking about his father's death and who might be responsible, avoiding any attempt to find out more about what being Starborn means, not actively trying to find information on Winter Law and seeming to forget about the relationship he wanted Lash to clue him into between the Black Court and the Outsiders, seems like a bit much to me.  It makes Sev Expar's explanation that Mab or someone else has been messing with Harry's mind to prevent him from asking dangerous questions, seem plausible to me.  Though as I said above, I would prefer to learn that Harry has been trying to answer the various mysteries he seems to be ignoring, he just hasn't found any useful source of information yet.
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Offline isoycrazy

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Re: What questions should Harry be asking?
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2019, 01:24:47 PM »
I agree Harry needs to learn Winter Law.  He could swing it as aiming to be a better knight, but the downside is if Mab's version of Physical Therapy involves a shotgun, I imagine a pop quiz would be writing an essay while bullets pop by.   Or a bomb goes off.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: What questions should Harry be asking?
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2019, 05:27:40 PM »
Who is the Wikipedia of Harry's life and purpose?  Who should he ask?  Everybody in the book that might have knowledge also have their own agendas.


Offline Regenbogen

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Re: What questions should Harry be asking?
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2019, 06:11:20 PM »
Couldn't he ask Toot-Toot about winter law and pay with lots of pizza?
Toot isn't winter, but he must know, doesn't he?
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 06:13:44 PM by Regenbogen »