Overall series questions

[morriswalters]

I find your arguments quite persuasive.  I did so before you made them, too!     I think "Nemfection" is a highly implausible & unsatisfactory answer.

I just... don't find much that IS plausible & satisfactory to explain Sarissa's choice of words.

I'm grasping at straws.

What exactly do you find implausible?

[Mira]

It's worth mentioning here that "Dementia" isn't any particular disease, it's a descriptive suite of symptoms, with several known diseases &c that can cause it.
https://www.alz.org/alzheimers-dementia/what-is-dementia/types-of-dementia

I note that "a form of congenital dementia" (Sarissa's phrase) could -- without much regular-ol' faerie fact-stretching, let alone half-blooded free will & freedom-to-lie -- likely be stretched to cover Nemfection itself.

Maybe Sarissa was saying she was Nemfected, and Mab is holding it in check.

True, it describes a set of symptoms..  I doubt that Sarissa is infected.   What I find odd is on one hand Sarissa implies that of her two daughters, she is the favorite.  As in her and Mab did mother/daughter activities together which caused jealousy in Maeve... Now that could be only because it isn't appropriate activities for a Queen/Lady relationship..  Back to the original point, Sarissa may feel gratitude to her mother, but not resentment one would expect if Mab were holding the treatment over her to control her.

[Kindler]

For Ghost Story, I view it like this:

Changes was all about blowing up Harry's life. He loses pretty much everything, and gains a daughter (the family he's been craving his entire life), but in a way sacrifices his relationship with her by giving her away. No job, no home, no lab, no magic equipment, no money to speak of, etc. Then it ends with him losing his life, too; that line about roasting marshmallows if the world burns was pretty much what he did to his own world during Changes. So we saw what Changes did to Harry.

Ghost Story, on the other hand, was all about what Changes did to everyone else. The choices that Harry had made from Storm Front all the way through Changes have come to a head. Murphy's jobless and barely holding together; the Alphas are bruisers for what amounts to a well-intentioned gang; the White Court, Marcone, and Harry's allies are doing what they can to hold onto Chicago; Molly has gone nutty and is trying to fill Harry's shoes the best she can; Bob and Butters have teamed up to help the Chicago Alliance; and Things Have Started to Fall Apart.

Molly in particular is important; this is where her relationship with Winter really begins. Lea is grooming her for Some Purpose.

But, basically, Changes was about what's important to Harry. Ghost Story is about how important Harry is to everyone else. It's a Wonderful Life is as good a metaphor as I can think of, except instead of "this is what would happen if you were never born," it's "here's what's happening since you died."

[kbrizzle]

Kbrizzle: Why would Mother Winter let the White Council have it for a millennium? No idea. But who says she gets a choice? Maybe that was the deal? Or perhaps 1000 years to her isn't that long - compared to the many millennia she has been alive. We know she wants it back now - perhaps the deal is up and Eb hasn't returned it. Would be just Harry's luck to get the Blackstaff only to have to give it back.

Your notion that the Fae Mantles are the immortal pieces is essentially correct - that was the revelation of Cold Days. Whether the mantle itself can be destroyed truly is another question. Remember, it was implied Maeve could be "killed" outside of Halloween but would reform eventually. Only during a conjunction does the stasis of immortality become malleable. Only then could Maeve be killed, and the Mantle transferred.

But I do find the idea that the Mantles are essentially a structure of immortality that creates more choice for the immortal, essentially letting them have the best of both world, really intriguing. It makes a lot of sense actually, when the agents who are implied to have created/elevated the Fae into what they are currently were the Old Gods (such as the Greco-Roman and Norse etc). They might have resented the lack of Free Will their Power and Immortality gave them, and found a clever work-around.

And yes, that may also explain Mother Winter's poor health and ailments. Although at her power level surely she would be insulated from Mortal discomforts...perhaps that is the price of it. I can't wait to find out!

As for non-Fae beings, such as demons. Well we know that if they are pure spirit energy and form a physical body (like a ghost, or the toad demon) they dissolve in ectoplasm on death which eventually breaks down further. Normally the "respawn" in the Nevernever, but occasionally are killed outright (such as by the Swords of the Cross). If they are combo beings, like the Naagloshii or the River Folk, I suspect not. Although the River Folk are essentially somewhere between humanity and Fae. Angels and Fallen (not Denarians)? Probably too much spirit...and not sure they can die at all. Even from the Swords. But we will have to wait and see on that front. Bob gives the impression nothing really changes between immortals unless a conjunction happens (such as Chicago above Chicago in Summer Knight...although Jim has retconned a few things since then). As for monsters, demons, other Things...probably a case by case basis. Chimera and Cyclops? Probably ectoplasm. Sue with resurrected Flesh? Ectoplasm. Although if you summoned Sue from 65 million years ago with a Time Travel way/wormhole...probably full on corpse, same as us. Fomor should be interesting - we know they are related to the Fae and the Jotuns, and we know the Turtlenecks transhuman body parts turn to ectoplasm but their bodies stay as corpses, so it will probably be a case by case thing too.

I am curious to know what would happen if Spider-Man or a Jedi died in Dresdenverse, they are a part of the greater cosmology in a way yet are mortal. We will probably never get an in-text answer for copyright reasons, but it is fun to guess.

I do believe that mantles were created for this purpose - a mortal-ish creature is needed to channel the power of the mantle, since only mortals have free will necessary to accomplish this. In a way, it seems to be quite similar to holding a Denarius, although I’d imagine most mantles of note come with quite a few more limitations than a Coin. I wonder if this is why most of the Lady-level Fae royalty we’ve seen so far have been Changelings.
 
I guess my more central question about the Fae Courts is, if the holders of the royal mantles are immortal, why is there is a geriatric linear progression at all? Are the Ladies supposed to remain the way they are forever, or is their position also supposed to be an excellent training ground for the next Queen? Maiden -> Mother -> Crone would imply this. Especially since there also seems to be a commensurate decrease in humanity for the beaters of the mantles.

@Mira
This is why I’m curious about the terms of the bargain between Sarissa & Mab. While Sarissa does seem to like the mother-daughter/ humanity Sherpa things she does with Mab, she also wonders if Mab ordered Harry to kill her - showing that she does not much trust Mab.
Perhaps Mab is doing this with Sarissa to avoid what went wrong with Maeve? Maeve seemed to think that Mab didn’t love her.

@Kindler
That’s an interesting way of looking at it. I still wonder how necessary/ important it is to have that message in a whole case file. The couple of short stories set after Changes (like Aftermath) do a pretty good job of showing the effects of Harry’s death on his friends.
Most of the case files have Nemesis or the Black Council subtly in them, I can’t really spot it in this one. What I mean is that all the case files after GP show a very real threat to an existing supernatural power structure. DM has a change to the ranks of the KotC, BR is about an existential threat to the WCV etc. from 2 different angles, SmF is about corrupting the Archive etc. GS doesn’t really have this.
I guess one could argue that had Capiocorpus’ actions been allowed to go unchecked, he would’ve become ‘mortal’ again & allied with the Fomor, making Chicago firmly Fomor territory. All of Harry’s friends would’ve likely died, & I think Marcone & Lara would’ve been run out of town.

[KurtinStGeorge]

As far as "Ghost Story" is concerned; first I want to say I don't like this novel very much, so what I'm about to say is an explanation, but not a defense of the novel.  Also, I'm not trying to be cheeky or making a joke here.  I am quite serious.

Whether Jim consciously thought about the parallel he was creating when he wrote Ghost Story is irrelevant, but in essence what Jim wrote was "It's a Wonderful Life - Harry Dresden."  Think about it.  If it's been a long time since you've seen the (overrated IMO) Christmas classic, or for some reason have never seen it, after Jimmy Stewart wishes he had never lived, an angel shows him what would have happened if that had been the case.  Spoiler Alert, everything and everyone J-J-Jimmy cared about went to sh*t without him.  That is (almost) exactly what happens in Ghost Story, except Harry made his wish with a bullet. (Also, Harry's attempted suicide wasn't going to change the past.)  However, after Harry disappears into the depths of Lake Michigan, Murphy becomes a vigilante murderer, Molly is on the point of a nervous breakdown, Thomas was a total wreck and the magical community of Chicago was under siege by the Fomor.  Harry's friends were barely hanging on and they had make deals with monsters and criminals in order to survive.

Ghost Story is not about Harry's journey in the novel.  Almost everything that happened, Harry saving Mort from Corpsetaker and Evil Bob, Harry helping  the teenage gang get away from the second rate sorcerer Aristedes, or even what Harry learned/remembered about Justin DuMorne and HWWB (Though I liked that part of the book and Harry's conversation with Lea in general.) is largely irrelevant to the major point of the story.  Ghost Story is about Harry learning what he means to his friends and the world at large.  Now Jim didn't hit his readers over the head with that message the way the movie did.  Plus, Harry wakes up having failed to escape from Mab, so it's a much darker ending than the movie; as if Jimmy Stewart found out he still had to spend a couple of years in jail, but that doesn't change the larger meaning of the novel.

Come December, go watch "It's a Wonderful Life" and then read or listen to the audio version of "Ghost Story."  You'll see exactly how right I am about this.

[Bad Alias]

If it's been a long time since you've seen the (overrated IMO) Christmas classic.

How dare you! 

I leave you with this King of Queens quote about the movie:

Carrie Heffernan:
[Arthur is watching 'It's A Wonderful Life'] Ah, 'It's A Wonderful Life'. Pretty great, huh?

Arthur Spooner:
Actually, I think it's a swing and a miss.

Carrie Heffernan:
What are you talking about? It's one of the greatest movies of all time.

Arthur Spooner:
With George Bailey, the town is boring. Without him, there's nightclubs and bars. It's fabulous. I wish he hadn't been born.

[g33k]

What exactly do you find implausible?

I find it implausible that Sarissa's "condition" would be something that conventional medicine would recognize as "congenital dementia."
I find it implausible that a changeling daughter of Mab's only coincidentally happens to have a "condition" that lets Mab get what she wants.
I find it implausible that Sarissa is only working with Mab/Winter/mom on a transactional "I do task-X, get paid reward-X" manner.
I find it implausible that Sarissa's "condition" would be Nemfection.
I find it implausible that Sarissa would carelessly Leave A Clue like this in front of a professional investigator.

I could go on...  ;-)

[morriswalters]

I find it implausible that a wizard was living in a basement in Chicago, which to me is much more implausible then someone having a genetic defect like Huntington's.  Look carefully at the terms of her deal.  Sarissa made out like a bandit.  Nine months vacation each year.  And immortality and youth to boot, with none of the responsibility of being the Lady.   Assuming her father was Franz Schubert, she's been alive long enough to become a billionaire by working at a fast food joint. And she's had two hundred years of youth to burn, which was 180 more than her contemporaries.

[segaily]

I find it implausible that Sarissa's "condition" would be something that conventional medicine would recognize as "congenital dementia."
I find it implausible that a changeling daughter of Mab's only coincidentally happens to have a "condition" that lets Mab get what she wants.
I find it implausible that Sarissa is only working with Mab/Winter/mom on a transactional "I do task-X, get paid reward-X" manner.

Have you considered the idea that Mab either faked or gave her the condition just to set things up?  Convincing someone they are sick so you can help them seems like a very winter thing to do.  Plus if by having her under control like this has allowed Mab to more easily keep her safe Mab would see faking the illness as doing the right thing. 

I find it implausible that Sarissa's "condition" would be Nemfection.
I find it implausible that Sarissa would carelessly Leave A Clue like this in front of a professional investigator.
I could go on...  ;-)

I agree with this I do not think it is Nemfection.  If it was that Mab would just cure her. We know she can remove it given time and fighting the outsiders is part of her purpose so she would not take 1/2 measures in that case.

[segaily]

These are some questions I’ve had about the series in general. While I have my own theories, I’m curious about what you all think.

• Why is Sanya shown as being a bit clumsy? There are a couple of explicit & random instances, like in SmF when he accidentally cuts Harry’s leg while trying to remove the kelpies on the boat to DR. From a Doylist perspective, why is this relevant? Especially since Michael is never shown as being remotely clumsy, or any other action-character really
• Since water is anathema to magic, what happens if Demonreach is hit by a tsunami? It is an island after all....
• Why does Mother Winter need a walking stick? Why does she seem beset by the ravages of old age at all? She has the power of an archangel, so surely she can cure herself? Why does she feel physical pain from exertion as MS says in CD after Harry summons her?

I think Sanya is made clumsy at times just to lighten things up.  I do not think there is deep meaning.

Demonreach's magic is set up through time.  I suspect for water to hurt  the defenses  would require something like many massive storms all hitting at exactly the correct interval in  years apart. 

I think being always old is part of the price of mother winters power.  Meaning if she was somehow killed. Mab would get all her power but also instantly become old.

[kbrizzle]

I still don’t think Sarissa actually has an illness... I think that is the name she gives to her Winter nature which is she obviously tries very hard to suppress (hence congenital). Sarissa’s long life I think is more attributable to her not having chosen between human/ Fae, not a grant of Mab’s. If Sarissa chose human, she would have a mortal lifespan, but if she chose Fae, she would no longer be mortal.

What we know is that Sarissa & Mab have a deal where Sarissa has to spend 12 weeks a year at Arctis Tor & in general be Mab’s ‘humanity Sherpa’. We aren’t sure what Sarissa gets in return apart from allaying the symptoms of her ‘congenital familial dementia’.

The most likely possibility here is that as Mab’s daughter, Sarissa would likely have a lot of enemies/ people who want to take advantage. The Winter way of looking at this situation would be that it is simple to fix - Sarissa should just choose to become more powerful (pick Fae & become high Sidhe) - by not picking, Sarissa is at fault for leaving herself vulnerable.

I believe Mab’s deal was that she would allow Sarissa to remain a Changeling under her protection in return for spending 3 months a year at Arctis Tor etc. Mab obviously had more things in mind for Sarissa, but I believe this was the basis of their deal.

@segaily
That is an interesting notion about Mother Winter - that the geriatric pain is part of her mantle. I wonder though why Mother Summer is not similarly afflicted? We have WoJ that the current Mother Summer is not the original. Iirc the previous Mother Summer & Winter Queen died before or around 1066. This was the change that brought Mab & Titania to their current roles.
So perhaps Mother Summer is simply younger hence doesn’t feel the same ravages of time that MW does?

[segaily]

@segaily
That is an interesting notion about Mother Winter - that the geriatric pain is part of her mantle. I wonder though why Mother Summer is not similarly afflicted? We have WoJ that the current Mother Summer is not the original. Iirc the previous Mother Summer & Winter Queen died before or around 1066. This was the change that brought Mab & Titania to their current roles.
So perhaps Mother Summer is simply younger hence doesn’t feel the same ravages of time that MW does?

I see it as mother winter's mantle makes her an old woman who lived a cold harsh hard life so it makes her body in pretty rough shape.  Mother summer's mantle makes her an old woman who lived a pretty good easy life. That is after all part of their natures.

Though the difference between the two could also be related to the black staff.  If Mother Winter for some reason put some of her power in her walking stick and then lost it the loss of power could be what causes the pain.

[Yuillegan]

Though the difference between the two could also be related to the black staff.  If Mother Winter for some reason put some of her power in her walking stick and then lost it the loss of power could be what causes the pain.

That is the implication in Cold Days by Mother Summer. She directly says that "She [Mother Winter] lost her walking stick [potentially Blackstaff]. Whilst your summons was impertinent, it was a necessity and you had the right. But it is terribly painful for her to travel, even briefly. You, a mortal, hurt her." I have put in the implications. But that is the quote. So it isn't so much why Mother Winter finds it painful to travel. We know that. It is why she can be hurt at all, feels the ravages of time, what that walking stick actually is etc that are the real questions we must investigate.

Kbrizzle: Whilst Mab could trick Sarissa, why would she? She could get any human to guide her. She wanted to find a reason to spend time with her daughter. Mother Winter and Summer comment directly on Mab's more human like nature; namely to feel affection for her daughter (Maeve). Mab cannot (both as Fae and a Winter Queen) just incur debt with a deal. The tragedy of it is, in order for her to have a relationship with her child, she has to put her child in debt to the office of the Winter Queen. Maeve is different, she has Chosen to be a Fae and is the Winter Lady, their relationship has different rules that are much more than merely parent and child. One of the underlying points of Cold Days is that Mab (and Faeries in general) are more human, more mortal, than Dresden realises. Mab's humanity almost ends the world. Had she been fully inhuman she would have killed Maeve outright and the problem would have been solved. Hell, she was so upset when she realised what had to happen she couldn't speak without a mouthpiece in order to not kill Dresden with the force of her rage. Mab "loves" her children (for want of a better word). She has no need to lie to incur Sarissa's debt. I think you are correct though that Mab is not extending Sarissa's life in the magical sense (Sarissa's fae nature does that well enough), it is more she helps her not be overtaken by her brain disease (whatever it actually is).

[kbrizzle]

@Yuillegan
I never said that Mab tricks Sarissa at all. My point was that Mab makes it possible for Sarissa to continually not choose being mortal or Fae without the inevitable consequences, in return Sarissa spends 3 months a year at Arctis Tor.
Mab absolutely loves both Sarissa & Maeve but I think you’re right that because Maeve is also Fae, her relationship with Mab has a lot of dimensions (most of which do not allow Mab to show her love); however a lot of these limitations don’t exist with Sarissa (although some obviously do). Perhaps this is one of the things that drove Maeve to insanity? Her jealousy of Mab & Sarissa’s relationship is clearly stated in CD.