Changes and GS, CD, SG,... Kinkaid

[Regenbogen]

Good mean everyone.

Does anyone know or is there a WoJ (because I couldn't find anything in the books), who paid Kinkaid for killing Harry in Changes?

Harry employed Kinkaid to shoot him (or did Molly make that call?), Molly invaded his mind to erase his memory. But who paid the mercenary?

Harry before being killed (with what money?)?

Molly?

No one else knew.

Or does Harry owe Kinkaid still his payment. OK, technically he could say, mission not succeeded, no money. 
Will we see Kinkaid trying to finish killing Harry, after years? Or was the mission: shoot the wizard in the heart and leave?

Sorry that I ask. All my books from Dead Beat onward are with a friend and her family, because I have succeeded in infecting the whole lot.

[Con]

Harry called Kincaid for the hit, trading in the favour Kincaid owed him for rescuing Ivy in Small Favour. Harry then had Molly wipe his memory of it so that he could lie to Mab. Lasciel was the one who manipulated Harry with a whisper, making him suicidal.

[Regenbogen]

 Ah, I forgot about the favour.
Thanks


So, does he still owe him? What do you think?
Harry is not dead.

[g33k]

... Lasciel was the one who manipulated Harry with a whisper, making him suicidal.

Do we have WoJ on this?  I don't think Lash did, or would have (Lasciel is obviously a different case, at least as to intention).

I didn't think the Denarians can whisper to random other people that way...  Maybe with the prior link, Lasciel can specifically reach Harry?

[g33k]

... So, does he still owe him? What do you think?
Harry is not dead.

Harry got shot, fell into the lake.

Later, his ghost was seen running all over Chicago, being obstreperously Harry.

Sounds pretty dead.

The fact that LATER ON, he shows up alive -- obviously having Cheated (because Wizards do that shit) -- doesn't mean that Kinkaid didn't do his job.

Or so I think Kinkaid will interpret it (and Harry too, though he'll just see it as Mab having cheated (well... cheated better than Harry)).

[Snark Knight]

I doubt he gets the favour back either way, but it would be prudent for Harry to reach out to Kincaid and tell him that the suicide plan was due to telepathic interference from the Fallen and he definitely doesn't want the job finished.

I don't think we have a firm explanation or WOJ on the seven words though. Lasciel was complaining about them not doing the job in SG, so it's safe to assume they came from her, but I'm not confident whether she reached him directly or Anduriel loaned her a channel to speak through from his listening-through-shadows ability.

[Bad Alias]

If Harry tells Kincaid that a favor is still owed, I'd put money on Kincaid seeing as he needed to finish the job.

[Regenbogen]

And that would be unhealthy.

[g33k]

I could see the scene where Harry engaged in a macabre version of that guy/guy macho teasing, "Ya know, you owed me that favor... turns out, your target survived... seems, I dunno... kind of unprofessional of you..."
 

[Avernite]

I could see the scene where Harry engaged in a macabre version of that guy/guy macho teasing, "Ya know, you owed me that favor... turns out, your target survived... seems, I dunno... kind of unprofessional of you..."

Nah, even Harry knows that Kincaid would respond 'oh, if you want it finished' and then Harry would look stupid :p

[Regenbogen]

Nah, even Harry knows that Kincaid would respond 'oh, if you want it finished' and then Harry would look stupid :p

Harry learns to better control himself but when provoked.... Head no control over mouth... 

That's what makes him so adorable. 

[g33k]

Nah, even Harry knows that Kincaid would respond 'oh, if you want it finished' and then Harry would look stupid :p 

I think Harry would realize the risk that Kinkaid might just decide to finish it, so not do the tease in the first place.  I think he has been convinced that monsterhood isn't an inevitable consequence of the WK-Mantle, so he plans to live until he figures out how to fix the problem.

But Kinkaid?  I'm not so sure he'd be willing to take another whack.  Recall their history on the topic:
1.
Kinkaid: "Never seen a wizard go all-out before."
Dresden: "You still haven't."
Kinkaid: <thoughtful pause>

2.
Kinkaid: "If I had to kill, I'd do it with a rifle from a thousand yards."
Dresden: <silent "oh shit!">

3.
Kinkaid: <kills Dresden from 1000yd with a rifle>
Dresden: <comes back from the dead>

At this point, I think Kinkaid would be like, "I took my best shot.  If that didn't work, I'm facing lower and lower odds of success.  I don't like how that plays out.  Not gonna take that contract."  I think Kinkaid has his own personal code of honor, and would do his best if he somehow found himself obligated to do so... BUT I don't expect he'd be happy to do so, and would look for an exit-clause from that obligation.
 

[Kindler]

Do we have WoJ on this?  I don't think Lash did, or would have (Lasciel is obviously a different case, at least as to intention).

I didn't think the Denarians can whisper to random other people that way...  Maybe with the prior link, Lasciel can specifically reach Harry?

I see the idea that Lasciel was the voice in Harry's ear bandied about quite a bit, but I don't understand it myself. Lasciel doesn't have a new Bearer until Hannah, as far as we know, and she doesn't join up until after Harry kills the Red Court (and the Brotherhood). The Denarians are trapped in their Coins without a bearer, and are unable to affect the mortal world (beyond manipulating events subtly, like rolling their Coin toward an unconscious Harry in Small Favor). So I don't understand how it could have been Lasciel.

Lash wouldn't have done that to Harry. Bonnie was still incubating. The Coin itself was, presumably, still in the custody of the Church. Aside from that, Harry barely even touched the Coin in the first place (physical contact once, then it was buring under several feet of concrete and sealed within a powered circle for several years). There shouldn't be any connection remaining between them. And Lasciel is trapped within the Coin without someone to accept it.

On top of that, if it was Lasciel, I'm pretty sure Uriel would've said "Oh yeah you know this one, bee tee dubbs" at the end of Ghost Story. He just confirms it was a Fallen. If it was a more personal connection, I think he would have at least implied that was the case.

[spiritofair]

I see the idea that Lasciel was the voice in Harry's ear bandied about quite a bit, but I don't understand it myself. Lasciel doesn't have a new Bearer until Hannah, as far as we know, and she doesn't join up until after Harry kills the Red Court (and the Brotherhood). The Denarians are trapped in their Coins without a bearer, and are unable to affect the mortal world (beyond manipulating events subtly, like rolling their Coin toward an unconscious Harry in Small Favor). So I don't understand how it could have been Lasciel.

Lash wouldn't have done that to Harry. Bonnie was still incubating. The Coin itself was, presumably, still in the custody of the Church. Aside from that, Harry barely even touched the Coin in the first place (physical contact once, then it was buring under several feet of concrete and sealed within a powered circle for several years). There shouldn't be any connection remaining between them. And Lasciel is trapped within the Coin without someone to accept it.

On top of that, if it was Lasciel, I'm pretty sure Uriel would've said "Oh yeah you know this one, bee tee dubbs" at the end of Ghost Story. He just confirms it was a Fallen. If it was a more personal connection, I think he would have at least implied that was the case.

Yeah, reading this thread, this is what I was wondering about, too. I think this is a clue that someone who was able to visit Harry at that time may have been carrying Lasciel's coin. That, or there is still some connection between Harry and Lasciel that hasn't been explained yet.

[Bad Alias]

The Denarians are trapped in their Coins without a bearer, and are unable to affect the mortal world (beyond manipulating events subtly, like rolling their Coin toward an unconscious Harry in Small Favor). So I don't understand how it could have been Lasciel.

That's why it was cheating. Lasciel is a deceiver and a liar, so simply lying to Harry isn't sufficient to be breaking the rules. Just as simply telling the truth isn't enough to allow an angel, fallen or otherwise, to tell a mortal something.

Lash wouldn't have done that to Harry. Bonnie was still incubating.

If she was still in the coin, how would Lasciel know about Bonnie? Does she know self sacrifice is the only way to rid oneself of a shadow under Dresden's otherwise known conditions, or did Nick tell her after Anduriel found out?