Small Favor Reread: Who Has Thorned Namshiel?

[isoycrazy]

Just finished a reread of Small Favor and I noticed this question of who took the Coin is still not answered.  I have laid out my ideas on six options for the fate of this Fallen One.

For Option 1, I don't see Marcone as stupid enough to risk using the Coin, or giving it to someone to try and control.  He would keep it in his vaults, maybe one of the ones Harry walked by during the break-in.  He knows the Church is corrupt, and so is trusting his own facilities to hold the Coin.

For Option 2, Vadderung doesn't need the Coin, but will secure it like any dangerous weapon.  He could also use his Kringle mask to give the Coin some well deserved "coal" for being a bad boy all these millennia.

For Option 3, while tragic, it would just fit Harry's luck that some poor schmuck finds the coin without knowing the danger it possesses, and Harry has to deal with the victim.  Pray it isn't found on someone's birthday.

For Option 4, I don't think Luccio ever was asked about the matter, but the White Council could have the means to secure the Coin from others.

For Option 5, similar to 4, but Peabody could have taken it from her and past it onto others so he could be reconstituted in a new host to work more with the Black Council.

For Option 6, while Mab doesn't typically go after such beings, this Fallen was instrumental in attacking her home.  She went after Nicodemus for just breaking his word to her and damaging her name with the Accords.  She would feel fully justified in making this Fallen One suffer as best she could, or maybe lock it away deep in her castle.

So, where is the Coin?

[narphoenix]

My bet is on option number 2. Marcone is too canny to break his word, and Gard is the most obvious leak. Option 3 was discussed as unlikely, and Jim is too lazy to waste foreshadowing. Options 4 and 5 are possible, and I hadn’t considered them: I don’t think they’re the case, but they’re really awesome. Option 6 has the same problem as Option 3, that the coin was discussed as unlikely to have fallen into the water.

[Snark Knight]

I don't think Marcone would lie. If he had the coin, he'd probably boast to Harry about punishing Namshiel's transgression against him by burying the coin in the concrete foundations of one of his construction projects or something.

Luccio probably would have told Harry if she'd knowingly brought it back to the white council, and for her to have unknowingly brought it to the black, Peabody would have had to lay a specific compulsion on her to do so. It's not impossible, but the window of opportunity wouldn't have been long. I'm not sure the reward of obtaining a Denarian coin is worth the risk of burning Luccio as an asset if Harry or the Knights caught her taking it.

Gard snagging it for Vadderung seems the most likely option. Namshiel getting to Hendricks is also a possibility - he was piloting.

[segaily]

How about instead of falling out into the water it happened before they left the island.  Meaning it is still either on the Island and will cause a future problem or a squire found it.  As far as we know Harry has never checked to see if there are any coins on the island.

[Mira]

How about instead of falling out into the water it happened before they left the island.  Meaning it is still either on the Island and will cause a future problem or a squire found it.  As far as we know Harry has never checked to see if there are any coins on the island.

I agree, I fear that a new wizard Denarian will show up when Harry least expects it, and it will spell T-R-O-U-B-L-E!!!!

[cptnspldng]

How about instead of falling out into the water it happened before they left the island.  Meaning it is still either on the Island and will cause a future problem or a squire found it.  As far as we know Harry has never checked to see if there are any coins on the island.

I doubt that the coin would still be still on the island. When Harry sets foot on the island he instinctively Knows everything about the geography of the island and all the inhabitants. How long did he spend trapped on the island between Cold Days and Skin Game? Somehow I doubt that a Denarian coin passed unnoticed in all that time.

[Snark Knight]

I doubt that the coin would still be still on the island. When Harry sets foot on the island he instinctively Knows everything about the geography of the island and all the inhabitants. How long did he spend trapped on the island between Cold Days and Skin Game? Somehow I doubt that a Denarian coin passed unnoticed in all that time.

He'd have to consider the question of whether the coin was still there. And unless it was still in the blessed kerchief, Nic or Tessa had years to summon it back for redistribution.

[Mira]

He'd have to consider the question of whether the coin was still there. And unless it was still in the blessed kerchief, Nic or Tessa had years to summon it back for redistribution.

It wasn't in a blessed hanky, if I remember correctly Harry and put them all in a Crown Royal bag..

[Bad Alias]

I don't think anything the Church does protects the coin from being summoned. What keeps Nic and Tessa (or whoever) from summoning the coin is that it wasn't their coin to summon.

I believe that because Harry could have summoned Lasciel's coin after he gave it to the Church, and if he could summon it, I don't see why Nic and Tessa couldn't summon any coin the Church had at any moment.

[Regenbogen]

I don't think anything the Church does protects the coin from being summoned. What keeps Nic and Tessa (or whoever) from summoning the coin is that it wasn't their coin to summon.

I believe that because Harry could have summoned Lasciel's coin after he gave it to the Church, and if he could summon it, I don't see why Nic and Tessa couldn't summon any coin the Church had at any moment.

I don't think it is that simple. Harry could only summon the coin, because Lasciel's shadow was inside him. I can't imagine, that one human could be inhabited by several Fallen or their shadows. So Nicodemus or any other Denarian can't have something of for example Lasciel in him to be able to summon her coin, because he is already "occupied".

[g33k]

I can envision a "safety" system the Denarians use, wherein a Fallen who has a satisfactory Host nevertheless has the host surrender the coin, briefly, and plants a Shadow in someone else.

The Shadow is there to be helpful and useful, and NOT summon the Denarius... except in the event the Host dies/repents, and the Coin falls into Church hands (or otherwise becomes lost), whereupon the en-Shadowed "Safety" summons the coin back into circulation.

Then the Denarian goes to another mortal, and does it again, for another "Safety."

Then again, and again...

There's no way the Church (or anyone else) can ever really be sure they have eliminated all the "Safeties" for any of the Fallen; they are "sleepers," not active agents of the Fallen.

Safeties against their plans going awry.
 

[Bad Alias]

I don't think it is that simple. Harry could only summon the coin, because Lasciel's shadow was inside him. I can't imagine, that one human could be inhabited by several Fallen or their shadows. So Nicodemus or any other Denarian can't have something of for example Lasciel in him to be able to summon her coin, because he is already "occupied".

The shadow wasn't inside Harry when the Church had the coin. It's possible that anyone could summon any coin at anytime, but what would the point of collecting and hiding them be?

[narphoenix]

I don't think anything the Church does protects the coin from being summoned.

We actually know this statement to be false. WoJ is that Cassius tried resummoning Saluriel’s coin, but the church successfully contained the Coin against it.

[segaily]

It is possible the island would also prevent a coin from being summoned.  It may only be the jail yard not a max security cell but it might still prevent things from being summoned off it. 

[Bad Alias]

We actually know this statement to be false. WoJ is that Cassius tried resummoning Saluriel’s coin, but the church successfully contained the Coin against it.

Jim said Harry could summon it. So either the coin wasn't protected, or Harry couldn't have actually summoned it. Right?