Who dies in Peace Talks

[KurtinStGeorge]

And yet Harry didn't have that ability in Blood Rites when Inari entered his room.  Harry knew Inari was Thomas and Lara's youngest sister.  Mouse was growling a puppy growl at Inari, Harry noticed a change in the way she moved; he called it "serpentine movement," he saw her eyes start to go silver and he said what he felt was different from what he felt when Lara did her thing, "but just as potent."  The next thing Inari is running her tongue along Harry's collarbone and then kissing him and only Harry's immunity saved him.

So I'm not sensing that a newby White Court vampire is any less dangerous than an experienced one.  The mortal side of a new White Court vamp is immature and inexperienced, but the demon inside instinctively knows how to entice, entrap and kill.   

[Slowpool]

And yet Harry didn't have that ability in Blood Rites when Inari entered his room.  Harry knew Inari was Thomas and Lara's youngest sister.  Mouse was growling a puppy growl at Inari, Harry noticed a change in the way she moved; he called it "serpentine movement," he saw her eyes start to go silver and he said what he felt was different from what he felt when Lara did her thing, "but just as potent."  The next thing Inari is running her tongue along Harry's collarbone and then kissing him and only Harry's immunity saved him.

So I'm not sensing that a newby White Court vampire is any less dangerous than an experienced one.  The mortal side of a new White Court vamp is immature and inexperienced, but the demon inside instinctively knows how to entice, entrap and kill.

  In the bedroom, he was worn out and distracted and, most importantly, had never been directly subjected to a WC vampire's feeding influence before.  He'd developed an image of Inari in his head as this sweet, innocent girl with terrible taste in pizza, and was unprepared when she came into his room.

  Harry of 8-10 years later, however, knows exactly what's up.  He quickly puts the pieces together and deduces Tania's identity well enough to know what she's probably capable of.  And as we've heard Harry himself say to Madeline, Lara can do some amazing things to your brain just by sitting in a chair.  Tania had to put her hand directly on Harry's skin.  And her inexperience is played up as a major part of the story- she set up baby's first gambit against someone she absolutely could not beat, and Lara allowed it to happen to drill some humility into her.  That's implied to be the whole reason Riley was there.

  Granted, the idea that Inari's influence was apparently just as potent as Lara's could be significant.  However, I think it could mean two different things:

 1:  Just as the text says, Inari's Hunger is just as strong as Lara's in general.  We do have a tidbit, though, from Justine (I think it was in Backup?), describing Thomas' Hunger as stronger than anyone's "but her's".  I can't help but assume that Justine's referring to Lara.
 
 2:  Inari, in that moment, had no frame of reference for the Hunger's influence, and thus had no control over it.  Lara's been at the game for a while- she knows exactly how much of the come hither to project to achieve the desired result.  At that point, Harry had only been subject to Lara's passive appeal, which implies to me that Inari's full-force attack was only as potent as Lara's everyday swagger.

  I simply don't see the Winter Mantle blocking the sexy broadcast from a WC.  There's no justification that I can remember that can't be explained by the fact that Harry is just more aware and competent than he used to be, combined with the fact that Tania is new to this game.
 
  If there were such a defense mechanism in place for the mantle bearer, I'd think it was more along the lines of the Winter Lady's automatic defenses against sex.  Yeah, sure, you might bombard them with the brainwaves, but the second you get deep enough in their system to start feeding, they tear your arms off.  That's much more on-brand than generic "I'm immune to your stupid sexy charms".

  Correct me if I'm wrong on any of my recollections here.

[Bad Alias]

Maybe it won't matter because of Harry's relationship with Murphy?

[123Chikadee]

Yeah, I think experience is what's making Harry better at throwing off sexy-time whammies, so while it'd be tricky with fighting a Lara who'd probably have a reason to go all out. Harry would have to use a sucker punch. Dunno if his relationship with Murphy is at that stage yet, but I bet it could be close.
I don't think that the Winter Court is gonna have anymore shake-ups for now. Summer maybe but I kinda doubt it. It think both White Council and White Court are gonna have the most shake-ups, even more so for the latter. Mainly b/c it's about time they had another shake-up.

[Kindler]

Harry's been shown to stop the White Court sex whammy on his own before. I'm not sure we can use Jury Duty as much of an example, and I think Lara's sex whammy would be significantly whammier than a White Court newbie.

[narphoenix]

   

  We haven't had a major character of consequences die in some time..  Especially anyone on "Team Harry," who's death sends out serious repercussions for the rest of the series...

Winter Court... 

     1]  Mab, a big one, if she dies, Molly becomes Queen... Big ripples..
      2]  Mother Winter, Mab becomes Mother, Molly becomes Queen, bigger ripples..
      3] Lea, might hurt, but in my opinion not that big a deal.

We know Mab and Molly are for sure off the table: they appear in Christmas eve as Winter Queen and Lady, and that's set after Peace Talks. By extension, since they've kept their positions, Mother Winter is still Mother Winter.

Lea is an interesting option.

The White Council..
     1] Eb,  yeah it would hurt, but ripples not huge
      2] Listens to Wind, again like Eb, ripples not huge that goes for the rest of the Senior
      Council with the exception of two.. 
       3] Rashid, huge impact because he is the Gatekeeper, often the swing vote on the Council, also   
       he appears to be a major general in the fight to keep out Nemesis etc at the Gates, we have
        no clue about just what he does, his death would be major...
          4]  The Merlin, mainly because of the power vacuum his death would create and the power struggle that would follow..

I think that LtW, Eb, Rashid, and Langtry each have 60-40 odds of surviving: any individual one is less likely to die, but I'm betting on a Senior Council level death curse, and we haven't seen Martha Liberty or Ancient Mai really go all out yet. Any one of the SC dying is going to have huge ripple effects, especially since Rashid implied in Turn Coat that Harry is going to confront the White Council at some point in the future.

     The White Court..

        1]  Thomas, for all the obvious reasons.. But he'd mainly matter to Harry, but ripples beyond that?  Doubtful...
        2] Lara, now her death would really stink up things.. 

Speaking from a storycraft perspective, Thomas is the main person with a target on his back from where I'm standing. Remember, we're not reading the books from the perspective of "what is the thing that is most significant in the world", we're reading them from Harry's perspective. Lara might die, but I'm going to give her 70-30 odds of surviving: she's pretty slick, and not inclined to slug things out if, say, Mab decides it's time to stop being nice and start raining unholy terror on everything.

     Murphy,  her death would cause a lot of personal pain for Harry, but her place in the universe is small...

Much to your chagrin, I think Murphy is the one person most likely to survive this mess other than people who have already been confirmed. She's almost certainly going to be involved, but in more of a coordinator of the Paranet role than a kicking ass role: I don't think JB is the type of person who's going to completely sideline a character with as imposing a presence as Murphy just because she's physically injured: he's made clear that he does NOT think that physical power is the be all end all of influence.

[Mira]

Much to your chagrin, I think Murphy is the one person most likely to survive this mess other than people who have already been confirmed. She's almost certainly going to be involved, but in more of a coordinator of the Paranet role than a kicking ass role: I don't think JB is the type of person who's going to completely sideline a character with as imposing a presence as Murphy just because she's physically injured: he's made clear that he does NOT think that physical power is the be all end all of influence.

You miss the point,  it has nothing to do with her present physical condition..  Yes, her death would be painful for Harry..   However it would make a hell of a lot fewer waves in the Dresdenverse verses Mab, Molly, the Merlin or Rashid for example... Even the death of a Holy Knight would make fewer ripples verses the four I just listed.   Murphy doesn't handle the Paranet, actually it appeared that Elaine had a lot to do with that...  It is doubtful that she'd step aside so Murphy can continue to have a meaningful job if she is impaired physically.   In short, yes, she has been a kick ass vanilla mortal in the past, but if she dies, with the exception of Harry, it won't mean much in the bigger picture.. Like when she was canned as a cop or decided not to become a Holy Knight, other mortals can step in to do the job...  Yes, she is important, but to the over all picture, not all that important.. That isn't saying one way or the other that she should die, shouldn't die, will or won't die, it is about how her death verses say Mab would effect the bigger picture, which is the rest of the series...

[Regenbogen]

OK. Now the Murphy survival supporters have convinced me. She will live.
But maybe Elaine will die in PT. She still means a lot to Harry so her death will have some impact, but not as bad as Murphy's.
Before Elaine dies, it will be revealed who she is. I think it is time.

[Mira]

OK. Now the Murphy survival supporters have convinced me. She will live.
But maybe Elaine will die in PT. She still means a lot to Harry so her death will have some impact, but not as bad as Murphy's.
Before Elaine dies, it will be revealed who she is. I think it is time.

Maybe, maybe not, depends on what she really has been up to...  What I am getting at is, when my husband died, yeah big impact on me and the family, perhaps a few friends, but the state didn't collapse as a result, the climate didn't change...  Murphy is an ordinary mortal, yeah, her life matters but beyond Harry and those in her inner circle, it won't change a whole lot...  But then again if her death really pisses Harry off to the point where he knocks off Mab or something like that, the world could change...  Even if Nic dies it won't change a whole lot, Denarians have come and gone over the  centuries...  The coins move on..

[CrusherJen]

The way I see it, Lara will live. According to Thomas, she's been working to consolidate and increase her power, and I think the consequences of that will take several books to play out. I don't believe she'll die until she ascends to the throne of the White Court.

Which means Papa Raith's days are numbered...

Thomas I think will be involved in intrigues against his sister when she rules the Court, so I believe he'll live, but a major injury is not off the table.

I have a feeling Carlos is more likely to survive than Luccio, as he has ties to both Harry and Molly. So he's a bit more likely to be needed in future books than Anastasia. (Poor Anastasia. I think she's toast.)

I'd like to see at least one Senior Council member fall in battle... and it sounds likely. Rashid is needed to fight the Outsiders, and I suspect Eb will die closer to the BAT. The Merlin's death would destabilize the WC too much at this point in the series. Anyone else is fair game, though in terms of emotional impact, we've spent the most time with Listens To Wind, so he's in danger. Ancient Mai would be next in line... though hopefully not before she explains why she's so impressed with Mouse the Foo Dog.

Mouse is probably off looking after Maggie, so both of them should be away from the action, and safe. And Mister is at Karrin's house, so he's good too. With her injuries, Murphy will probably still be on the sidelines, so she's relatively safe... but one of her family members won't be. (That's the funeral Jim teased us with.)

With so many major players involved, the Alphas seem pretty outclassed, so I'm not seeing them having a big role in this book. (Would the White Council approve of their shapeshifting abilities? They're better off laying low for the moment.)

I expect Toot-Toot will make an appearance, but survive. He's too useful to be written out, not before

(click to show/hide)

he grows in power enough to become a full-sized fairy. That's a WAG of mine.

Tilly? If he shows up, it could go either way. I do believe we'll see complications with humans becoming aware of the supernatural, but he isn't needed to play a role in that, so he's not safe.

Marcone needs to have a final showdown with Harry, and this book will be busy enough as it is, so he lives. There's no guarantee how many of his employees will survive, so Hendricks and Gard are in danger.

Lea still needs to explain her deal with Maggie Sr., and I feel like that's probably in a future book. But I'm not sure enough to bet money on that.

Elaine's most likely keeping her head down and avoiding the WC's notice by downplaying her talents, but if she shows up, she's vulnerable, because her death would hurt Harry badly.

I don't see much chance of changes in the Summer Court, although it might be amusing to see Harry's reaction if Titania ascends to Mother.  (I don't predict it, but that would be fun.) Titania hates Harry, so it tortures him more if she lives. Two Summer Ladies have died already, so Sarissa should be safe... but Fix isn't. Having someone who knows and somewhat trusts Harry as his opposite Knight is a little too convenient for Harry...

Based on the Christmas story, we already know Mab and Molly are safe, and by extension, Mother Winter is too. But the Erlking likes to hunt Harry's enemies, so if he shows up, he's vulnerable. After all, one way to survive the Wild Hunt is to defeat its leader. (I know it won't take place on Halloween, but I doubt that's the only way to kill an Immortal.)

Butters just got the job, so he should be okay. Ammorachius is still out of play. So there's only one Sword we haven't seen change hands yet... Sanya's. I don't want to see him die, but it's possible.

Ivy is safe-- she's too important to kill, until there's a backup for the Archive. Kincaid might sacrifice himself to save her, or he might live.

And I've practically written a book, so I should stop here. 

[g33k]

  Yeah, I think experience is what's making Harry better at throwing off sexy-time whammies, so while it'd be tricky with fighting a Lara who'd probably have a reason to go all out. Harry would have to use a sucker punch.

Remember, Harry has already beaten Lara's "going all out."

Escaping the Raith Deeps at the end, ragged and exhausted and out of fuel... he told her, "Kiss me" and used that to refuel his magic, to survive multiple C4 charges simul-detonating in an enclosed space, sufficient to launch a WizWhamp canonball thousands of feet away.

He intentionally set her up, triggered her Hunger in a way that she'd have no reason to hold back, at the end of a battle where she used a LOT of whamp-energy to fight... so she was ravenously Hungry.  He took that, and used it for his own ends.
 
If either of them needs the advantage of a sucker-punch, it's Lara!

[KurtinStGeorge]

Maybe it won't matter because of Harry's relationship with Murphy?

Yes, because absolutely nothing can get in the way of them consummating their relationship.....  Well, maybe not. 

[KurtinStGeorge]

Remember, Harry has already beaten Lara's "going all out."

Escaping the Raith Deeps at the end, ragged and exhausted and out of fuel... he told her, "Kiss me" and used that to refuel his magic, to survive multiple C4 charges simul-detonating in an enclosed space, sufficient to launch a WizWhamp canonball thousands of feet away.

He intentionally set her up, triggered her Hunger in a way that she'd have no reason to hold back, at the end of a battle where she used a LOT of whamp-energy to fight... so she was ravenously Hungry.  He took that, and used it for his own ends.
 
If either of them needs the advantage of a sucker-punch, it's Lara!

No, this is wrong.  Harry still had immunity.  He didn't beat Lara's hunger then, he just got lucky.

[Bad Alias]

Yes, because absolutely nothing can get in the way of them consummating their relationship.....  Well, maybe not.

Even consummating their relationship doesn't mean they'll have protection because it has to be "true love." Both Harry and Murphy have enough issues about relationships individually that even if they are romantic and engaging in the marital act, it could take them quite a while, if ever, to hit "true love."

[g33k]

No, this is wrong.  Harry still had immunity.  He didn't beat Lara's hunger then, he just got lucky.

It isn't immunity -- it's that genuine Love is caustic/toxic to Whamps.  They can still whammy someone, make them feel intense arousal & brain-blistering passion.  They just cannot feed on it.

Earlier in the battle -- with Lara not even "aiming" her whammy, just being herself in battle -- Harry had to remind himself NOT to go worship at her feet.  Not immune.

When he got Lara to kiss him, he felt it, that supernaturally-erotic thrill and urge.  Even though he knew the bombs were about to blow, he experienced a deep urge to just f__k her then and there, until he died.  Not at all immune.

But very, very disciplined.

He made Lara into his fuel.  If it ever comes to her attention in just that way of framing it, she is likely to either decide to kill him... or else never, ever again risk coming into direct opposition to him.