Who dies in Peace Talks

[Kindler]

Lara versus Harry would get super complicated when you account for the Mantle's sex drive. Her whole thing is lust, and that's a primary motivator for the WK's Mantle. It wouldn't really be a physical fight so much as Harry desperately clinging to... well, at this point, chastity... while Lara does her best to tempt him.

My God, I'm so excited for Peace Talks that it's keeping me up at night. Well, not really. I have severe chronic insomnia, so I'm usually up anyway. But I'm thinking about Peace Talks while I'm up most nights, so I'm counting it, damn it.

[RobReece]

Part of me thinks that Harry would refuse to be the Blacksraff, he was so mad when he found out what Eb had done as part of his duties, I don't think he'd want any part of it.

[g33k]

Part of me thinks that Harry would refuse to be the Blacksraff, he was so mad when he found out what Eb had done as part of his duties, I don't think he'd want any part of it.

You mean when the WC wants to do something even MORE ethically disgusting than beheading a youth whose own magic corrupted them, because the WC never trained them to use said powers safely?

You're right, of course... Harry wants no part of being the WC's covert wetworks "Blackstaff."

OTOH... If Ebenezer falls in battle -- say, against a Walker, or other Outsider foe -- and the ONLY way to defeat the Outsider is for a Starborn wizard to pick up the extra winter magic of the Blackstaff... Well, then I think Harry does what needs to be done, and to hell with the consequences.

[g33k]

Lara versus Harry would get super complicated when you account for the Mantle's sex drive. Her whole thing is lust, and that's a primary motivator for the WK's Mantle. It wouldn't really be a physical fight so much as Harry desperately clinging to... well, at this point, chastity... while Lara does her best to tempt him. ...

On the one hand... You are absolutely correct, that's a rather huge issue.

On the other hand, I can't believe the WK/mantle has no good way to handle Whamps.  Whamps are the most-human-seeming vamp, and the Knights are specifically there for doing human-related things for their Court.  Having this major weakness just seems so very improbable...

Just hypothetically, maybe the Winter powers can somehow chill/shutdown the Whamp's demon/phage?

[Kindler]

I'd argue that the White Court vamps' effect would be in such strong agreement with the Mantle's core drives that it wouldn't even notice it working. It's all Lizard Brain stuff. Lara broadcasts her sex waves, and the Mantle responds with, "This is a GREAT idea!"

I doubt that the Mantle would have any specific defenses against White Court vamps. No idea how that would even work based on what we know about it, or magic in general. And it doesn't make sense to me that there'd be an If White Court Vampire, Then Shut This Thing Down line in the Mantle's code. It's not like it's got any other specifically-designed defenses that I can think of, just specifically-designed weaknesses (Iron and Winter itself).

Not saying Harry wouldn't (or, more likely, won't) be able to resist, just that he'd wind up fighting two influences rather than one.

[narphoenix]

I'd argue that the White Court vamps' effect would be in such strong agreement with the Mantle's core drives that it wouldn't even notice it working. It's all Lizard Brain stuff. Lara broadcasts her sex waves, and the Mantle responds with, "This is a GREAT idea!"

I doubt that the Mantle would have any specific defenses against White Court vamps. No idea how that would even work based on what we know about it, or magic in general. And it doesn't make sense to me that there'd be an If White Court Vampire, Then Shut This Thing Down line in the Mantle's code. It's not like it's got any other specifically-designed defenses that I can think of, just specifically-designed weaknesses (Iron and Winter itself).

Not saying Harry wouldn't (or, more likely, won't) be able to resist, just that he'd wind up fighting two influences rather than one.

Given that the Winter Queens most of the time can just boss their Knight around, I suspect they may not necessarily care about the White Court. If you're dumb enough to get eaten, well, you're dumb enough to get eaten.

[Just Al]

Part of me thinks that Harry would refuse to be the Blacksraff, he was so mad when he found out what Eb had done as part of his duties, I don't think he'd want any part of it.

He would also have a conflict of interest. The blackstaff is (most likely) Mother Winter's cane. Harry taking possession of it would (presumably) force him to return it to Mother Winter.

[Bad Alias]

I'd argue that the White Court vamps' effect would be in such strong agreement with the Mantle's core drives that it wouldn't even notice it working. It's all Lizard Brain stuff. Lara broadcasts her sex waves, and the Mantle responds with, "This is a GREAT idea!"

I doubt that the Mantle would have any specific defenses against White Court vamps. No idea how that would even work based on what we know about it, or magic in general. And it doesn't make sense to me that there'd be an If White Court Vampire, Then Shut This Thing Down line in the Mantle's code. It's not like it's got any other specifically-designed defenses that I can think of, just specifically-designed weaknesses (Iron and Winter itself).

Not saying Harry wouldn't (or, more likely, won't) be able to resist, just that he'd wind up fighting two influences rather than one.

On the other hand, Winter has a tendency to think sex and violence are interchangeable. That right there could be a powerful Winter Knight check on Wamps, turning a feeding into physical fight. If that's the case, I really don't want to read that.

[123Chikadee]

Oh, I was talking more about Eb vs L.Raith being a fight neither would really walk away from. Sorry, guess I should have made that clearer. But a fight between Harry and Lara, yeah ya'll are right that would be much more even. Hm, about his mantle I think Bad Alias could be the closest on it, but Harry did have something similar happen to him against Maeve in Cold Days, so maybe that experience could give him an edge in a fight against Lara.
Oh, this is fun. Maybe we should do who would win and how match-ups, if that isn't already up here somewhere.

[narphoenix]

Back on topic, I think that I'm gonna have put a bet against Thomas surviving to the end of the book. I love the guy, but he's the closest person to Harry whom Jim can reasonably kill off.

[123Chikadee]

Yeah, I think that could happen, I just don't want it to b/c there's so many more interesting things to do when Thomas is alive instead. I'm getting more onboard with the idea of Luccio dying than I used to be.

[g33k]

Yeah, I think that could happen, I just don't want it to b/c there's so many more interesting things to do when Thomas is alive instead. I'm getting more onboard with the idea of Luccio dying than I used to be.

Hmmm.  I too would like to see lots more Thomas, and I think there's a fair bit of dramatic potential there; I don't think he's going YET.  Also, in the Christmas Story, Harry seemed to be more generically sad about all the deaths, without (I thought) the specific agony of losing his brother.  Still... maybe; I expect at least ONE person who is on the "Team Harry" shortlist to die, and the same "why isn't he specifically grieving for them" argument applies.  So, ummm ... I dunno? I guess...

Luccio is a strong bet for the deadpool, I suppose.  I see 2 reasons not to bet on her:
1. Jim is a lazy author (iirc, we have WOJ on this):  he has a LOT of writing & characterization invested in Luccio as chief Warden; who else gets the job?  Eb stepping back down?  Harry stepping up?  Or will Jim promote "Steed" or one of the other very-minor characters?
2. Luccio is no longer a magical heavyweight, courtesy of her new bod; and there's just tons of extra dramatic tension in having the WC's "warleader" be less combat-capable.  But it's also possible that Jim has wrung all the narrative tension out of Luccio that he wants to, and it's time for her to move on... Maybe the new head Warden is Cristos' 1st choice... that would notch up the dramatic tension!

Lesser characters...

Tilly for the deadpool?  Now that he's clued-in, he gets recruited by the Fed version of SI/BlackCats (because of course there IS one), and comes because the Fed is interested in having Peace Talks successful...

Stallings, or other SI cops?  Likely.

Forthill seems fairly likely, too.

Gard is a distinct possibility.

Helen Beckitt?  Whither goeth Marcone...  She'll certainly be at risk.

[KurtinStGeorge]

Lara versus Harry would get super complicated when you account for the Mantle's sex drive. Her whole thing is lust, and that's a primary motivator for the WK's Mantle. It wouldn't really be a physical fight so much as Harry desperately clinging to... well, at this point, chastity... while Lara does her best to tempt him.

I'd argue that the White Court vamps' effect would be in such strong agreement with the Mantle's core drives that it wouldn't even notice it working. It's all Lizard Brain stuff. Lara broadcasts her sex waves, and the Mantle responds with, "This is a GREAT idea!"

I doubt that the Mantle would have any specific defenses against White Court vamps. No idea how that would even work based on what we know about it, or magic in general. And it doesn't make sense to me that there'd be an If White Court Vampire, Then Shut This Thing Down line in the Mantle's code. It's not like it's got any other specifically-designed defenses that I can think of, just specifically-designed weaknesses (Iron and Winter itself).

Not saying Harry wouldn't (or, more likely, won't) be able to resist, just that he'd wind up fighting two influences rather than one.

If I recall correctly, in the short story Jury Duty we find that Harry; IMO because of the Winter Knight's mantel, is pretty much immune to White Court mojo.  When a young female member of House Raith turns on her seduction vide, it just get's Harry P.O'd.  I don't think Mab or Mother Winter for that matter, would burden the mortal champion of the Unseelie Fae with a Knight's mantel that makes the bearer susceptible to the White Court or any other type of succubus.  Susceptible to anyone from Winter sure, but not to anyone outside the family.

[Mira]

   

  We haven't had a major character of consequences die in some time..  Especially anyone on "Team Harry," who's death sends out serious repercussions for the rest of the series...

Winter Court... 

     1]  Mab, a big one, if she dies, Molly becomes Queen... Big ripples..
      2]  Mother Winter, Mab becomes Mother, Molly becomes Queen, bigger ripples..
      3] Lea, might hurt, but in my opinion not that big a deal.

The White Council..
     1] Eb,  yeah it would hurt, but ripples not huge
      2] Listens to Wind, again like Eb, ripples not huge that goes for the rest of the Senior
      Council with the exception of two.. 
       3] Rashid, huge impact because he is the Gatekeeper, often the swing vote on the Council, also   
       he appears to be a major general in the fight to keep out Nemesis etc at the Gates, we have
        no clue about just what he does, his death would be major...
          4]  The Merlin, mainly because of the power vacuum his death would create and the power struggle that would follow..

     The White Court..

        1]  Thomas, for all the obvious reasons.. But he'd mainly matter to Harry, but ripples beyond that?  Doubtful...
        2] Lara, now her death would really stink up things.. 

     Murphy,  her death would cause a lot of personal pain for Harry, but her place in the universe is small...

[Slowpool]

If I recall correctly, in the short story Jury Duty we find that Harry; IMO because of the Winter Knight's mantel, is pretty much immune to White Court mojo.  When a young female member of House Raith turns on her seduction vide, it just get's Harry P.O'd.  I don't think Mab or Mother Winter for that matter, would burden the mortal champion of the Unseelie Fae with a Knight's mantel that makes the bearer susceptible to the White Court or any other type of succubus.  Susceptible to anyone from Winter sure, but not to anyone outside the family.

  The way I read that, it implied that Harry could feel the mojo starting and decided to shut it down before it could go anywhere.  The implication being that he had been on the receiving end of some major heavy-class White Court influence in the past, and the inexperienced Tanya's power was minor enough that he knew exactly what was happening and exactly how to stop it.  I didn't attribute it to any sort of inherent immunity or resistance.