The value of Harry's debt is punching above its weight in Summer Knight

[Avernite]

I don't know where this if coming from, but I'm 99% certain it isn't the books.

I don';t know either but have heard it before, so maybe a WoJ?

[morriswalters]

@Morris: Are you referring to something in the quotes you supplied, or when Mab shows Maggie to Harry, which is near all this?

Yeah, sorry if that wasn't clear.  She shows Harry little Maggie as she is in real time.

[Bad Alias]

I don';t know either but have heard it before, so maybe a WoJ?

I've heard it before too. Here. I try to listen to all the WoJ, but it's not like there is a central repository that's easy to track. This https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/board,43.0.html is about as close as I've seen. Anyway, I don't recall hearing it from Jim.

@Morris: Cool.

[morriswalters]

True, but what we don't know is how Mab acquired the Atheme..  We know that Lea is detained, but don't know if it is because she defied Mab or because she is showing symptoms of infection or both.

Yes and no.  There are hints.

"Because I do not tolerate challenges to my authority," she said. One pale hand drifted to the hilt of the knife at her belt. "Certain events had convinced your godmother that she was no longer bound by my word and will. She is now learning otherwise."

We know that Mab's word is Law.  Why was Lea able to warn Harry about the hazards of the Stone Table?  How Jim uses language in the first quote is as important as what she actually says.  If Mab doesn't care if Harry knows then she needn't be furtive, if on the other hand she has been told to tell him of the table but not the implications for him, how was she able to speak at all.  When Titania doesn't want Lilly and Fix to talk to Harry about her wishes they can't. 

However from the tinfoil hat section of the stadium.  When Lea is  on the crazy tree in Proven Guilty she says.

Some of the strength seemed to ebb from her, and she suddenly seemed exhausted. “I grew too arrogant with the power I held. I thought I could overcome what stalks us all."

Did she know the Atheme was infected  with nemesis when she got it?



 

[Bad Alias]

I'm fairly certain that Lea didn't know that the athame was infected. That's why she refers to the gifts as treacherous. Then again, it is often hard to properly interpret what a fairy actually means. For example, it could be said a Sidhe's promises are treacherous.

[isoycrazy]

It is my belief that Maeve was infected during the battle of the Stone Table during Summer Knight.  In all that confusion and focus on Harry killing Aurora and Lily's ascension, it would be an ideal time to spread the infection to Maeve.

Initially Mab only saw Lea having both a strong Word-promised debt of Harry which would allow her to manipulate and control the young mortal wizard, and the Athame as too much power initially, so, she took Harry's debt because that would be a better long term use than the evil blade.  After all, Harry used impressive guile to outwit Lea while in Winter's domain specifically when she had all the power and courage to risk his own life in saving himself.  Mab probably watched the confrontation of Harry and Bianca, either in live form or some fae observing (she isn't bound from not using the information to harm Bianca because she is dead), and sees Harry's wrath and love driving him to make war.  Remember that Mab respects Love and the way it can drive people to do some very dark things.

Mab: So many terrible things are done for love. For love will men mutilate themselves and murder rivals. For love will even a peaceful man go to war. For love, man will destroy himself, and that right willingly.

During the in between of Summer Knight and Dead Beat, Lea tried something more overt, a direct confrontation of Mab, insubordination, or something which should never happen in their old dynamics.  Lea has enough strength of will to recognize her ailment and condition, and this is what makes Mab decide to spare her and heal her, rather than remove a dangerous and infected person.  Perhaps on some level Mab even loves Lea, making the choice to destroy her all the harder.

After Dead Beat, maybe during one cleansing of Lea, Lea is able to confess or Mab is able to determine based on Maeve's lack of response to the Vampires invading their domain, Maeve was infected too.  This is what leads to her anger in Small Favor and needing to use a translator.

[Mira]

Initially Mab only saw Lea having both a strong Word-promised debt of Harry which would allow her to manipulate and control the young mortal wizard, and the Athame as too much power initially, so, she took Harry's debt because that would be a better long term use than the evil blade.  After all, Harry used impressive guile to outwit Lea while in Winter's domain specifically when she had all the power and courage to risk his own life in saving himself.  Mab probably watched the confrontation of Harry and Bianca, either in live form or some fae observing (she isn't bound from not using the information to harm Bianca because she is dead), and sees Harry's wrath and love driving him to make war.  Remember that Mab respects Love and the way it can drive people to do some very dark things.

I think Mab is well aware that Harry is starborn as well as a wizard,  she most likely impressed how he managed to clear her of the charges of murdering the Summer Knight, which also left her short a Winter Knight... So quite natural she'd want him on her team.... Let's not forget that though Mab may have taken on Harry's debt to Lea, she still could not force him to become her Knight.  As a mortal, Harry still has free will...

[g33k]

I think Mab is well aware that Harry is starborn as well as a wizard ...

Indeed!

I think Mab knew Harry as a Starborn wizard from his birth.  I think that is WHY she interacts with him at all, and the entirety of her intention toward him.

His mom was well-known to the upper echelons of Winter.  Bargaining with the Leanansidhe -- Mab's Right Hand -- to be Harry's godmother?  The Ruby Waystone?  These are not small matters!  Harry's birth was well-known to Winter; Harry's wizardly potential as Margaret's child, his Starborn potential from his birth-circumstances... obvious to Winter.

But if his Mom's preperations were not small matters, neither is Harry a "small matter" -- a Starborn wizard never is!  As an apprentice, he defeated one of the most-mighty Outsider Knights there is.  How big a deal is that, really?

Well... when the cadre of WC refugees arrived (and settled the Molly case in favor of a Doom over her and Harry), we learned that the Outsider assault would have likely taken them all (if not for Michael); and who was the wizard fighting those outsiders?  The Blackstaff, the WC's most dangerous and deadly combatant.  And apprentice-Harry was punching in that weight-class.

To be brutally frank -- Mab NEEDS that kind of power to be part of the defenses of the Outer Gates.  Therefore, she needs Harry.

All of Mab's interactions with Harry -- including making him Winter Knight -- are about making him a better, stronger wizard, so he can fight the Outsiders better.
 

[Mira]

To be brutally frank -- Mab NEEDS that kind of power to be part of the defenses of the Outer Gates.  Therefore, she needs Harry.

Yes, and Harry is well aware that she needs him more than he needs her...  That is why he is able to give her crap in Harry fashion and she takes most of it pretty well..

All of Mab's interactions with Harry -- including making him Winter Knight -- are about making him a better, stronger wizard, so he can fight the Outsiders better.

Yes, she is toughening him up to make the hard choices...

[g33k]

Yes, and Harry is well aware that she needs him more than he needs her...  That is why he is able to give her crap in Harry fashion and she takes most of it pretty well...

I don't think Harry has realized, yet.

I think he hasn't delved into the implications of being a "Starborn" and what that REALLY means.  I don't think he has spotted Mab's special interest in them.

I think he's still stuck in the OMG-ness of being in Mab's crosshairs.
 

[morriswalters]

Just for the record, until Harry no longer needs magical aids to walk to the bathroom, he definitely needs Mab more than she needs him.  Paralysis is funny that way.

[nadia.skylark]

Just for the record, until Harry no longer needs magical aids to walk to the bathroom, he definitely needs Mab more than she needs him.  Paralysis is funny that way.

Jim has made at least one ambiguous statement about whether or not Harry is actually paralyzed without the Winter Knight mantle, so this may not be true--although Harry almost certainly believes it is.

[Mira]

Jim has made at least one ambiguous statement about whether or not Harry is actually paralyzed without the Winter Knight mantle, so this may not be true--although Harry almost certainly believes it is.

The thing is, if Harry's spine isn't really healed then she broke her part of the bargain..   She can make Harry believe that it isn't healed unless he remains her Knight..  However having said that, she takes more guff off of him than she would any other ordinary mortal.

[morriswalters]

As of Cold  Days Chapter 29 page 297 of the Kindle Edition.

[nadia.skylark]

As of Cold  Days Chapter 29 page 297 of the Kindle Edition.

As of this, what?

If you mean, "as of this, we have evidence that Harry's back is broken," this section is what Jim's ambiguous statement was referring to--if I recall correctly, he said that "it's almost as if someone didn't know what was going on/didn't have all the facts/was being deceived about what was happening," or some such. The gist of it was that Harry could have been mistaken when he thought that his back was still broken under the mantle.