A Question About Naagloshii

[Mira]

I think if you re-read what he wrote you'll likely conclude that he meant the woman falls in love with the Naagloshii, not the other way around. 

Exactly...

     


It does require a modicum of freedom, for the woman; and a certain degree of availability, from those with the knowledge and/or skills...  Those aren't ALWAYS available.   It's not like just because it was known" to the Grecian Hetarae 2500 years ago, it was equally available to peasants 1000 years ago...  Sometimes those "old wives tales" work, and sometimes they don't.

But women have always found a way not to carry a child to term if they don't want it.. Often with tragic results for both the woman and the child...  Just because a woman was a peasant doesn't mean she didn't have access to poisonous plants and herbs, or just have"accidents"  the local "wise woman" or witch, medicine woman would know ways..

[exartiem]

I read it perfectly fine the first time.  My point, which was apparently missed, was that you could fall in love with a grizzly bear; but if you try to give that grizzly a kiss you're going to get eaten.

The only way she could fall in love with a naagloshii is if it tricked her into it.

And my comment about rape was not about methodology.  My hypothesis was that she would not, regardless if it were possible.  Otherwise the whole theory falls apart.

[Mira]

I read it perfectly fine the first time.  My point, which was apparently missed, was that you could fall in love with a grizzly bear; but if you try to give that grizzly a kiss you're going to get eaten.

The only way she could fall in love with a naagloshii is if it tricked her into it.

And my comment about rape was not about methodology.  My hypothesis was that she would not, regardless if it were possible.  Otherwise the whole theory falls apart.

If it kept to it's human form she wouldn't have a clue that she was making love to a grizzly.. If it stayed in human form, she wouldn't know until the kid was born with a rude awakening.

[exartiem]

I severely doubt the a skinwalker (who is supposed to be evil) would be interested in having a human love it.  Given what Jim has told us about them, I think it more likely that it would rape a nun and torture her for nine months rather than have a woman believe that she (nun or not) was in love for nine months.

It would prefer cause her (if she were a nun) to question her faith, her religion, forcing her to commit (what the catholic church considers) a mortal sin of either abortion or suicide.

[Mira]

I severely doubt the a skinwalker (who is supposed to be evil) would be interested in having a human love it.  Given what Jim has told us about them, I think it more likely that it would rape a nun and torture her for nine months rather than have a woman believe that she (nun or not) was in love for nine months.

A skinwalker is clever, sadistic and is very capable of taking human form and seducing a woman if the incentive was good enough to do it...  Love is irrational, especially a mother's love..  So it would reveal itself after the child was born, then continue to get at the mother through her child...

[morriswalters]

Or he could do what a lot of men do.

[Mira]

Or he could do what a lot of men do.

Exactly, only worse than what the worst of the worst of men would do....

[exartiem]

I guess it comes down to opinion.  What is more sadistic and traumatizing: loving someone or raping someone?

Either way, it leads to the same end.  The mother tries to raise the monster to be good to spite the father.

[Mira]

I guess it comes down to opinion.  What is more sadistic and traumatizing: loving someone or raping someone?

Either way, it leads to the same end.  The mother tries to raise the monster to be good to spite the father.

Very true,  only difference perhaps is rape is mostly an act of violence..  Something the skin walker is very capable of...  However seduction of the victim, making her fall in love before the reveal that it is actually a horrible monster?  That is down right sadistic, something the skinwalker excels at....

[g33k]

Very true,  only difference perhaps is rape is mostly an act of violence..  Something the skin walker is very capable of...  However seduction of the victim, making her fall in love before the reveal that it is actually a horrible monster?  That is down right sadistic, something the skinwalker excels at.... 

Seduction comes in several sorts... there's the "fling" sort of thing, the one-night-stand, the lost weekend, the week-on-vacation-and-never-seen-again, etc.  That isn't really "in love," and the "big reveal" might be horrifying, disgusting, etc...  Inducing someone to fall deeply in love?  I agree that the sadism is far greater; but I doubt that a Naagloshi would care enough about any mortal, be patient enough, to invest all that time... they despise humans too much to invest that much into any of them!
 

[Mira]

Seduction comes in several sorts... there's the "fling" sort of thing, the one-night-stand, the lost weekend, the week-on-vacation-and-never-seen-again, etc.  That isn't really "in love," and the "big reveal" might be horrifying, disgusting, etc...  Inducing someone to fall deeply in love?  I agree that the sadism is far greater; but I doubt that a Naagloshi would care enough about any mortal, be patient enough, to invest all that time... they despise humans too much to invest that much into any of them!

Depends on what it's motives were....  What it did to Thomas for example, it didn't just beat him up to hold him to trap Harry... No, it sadistically did it over and over again to the point of death, so Thomas would have to feed until death over and over again, young innocent girls.. I call that sadistic...  So yeah,  depending on what it's orders were it is very capable of appearing as a handsome young man or worse yet murdering the husband or lover of the woman, taking his shape, get her pregnant, stick around as the loving lover or husband until she gives birth, then reveal the horror that it is... 

[isoycrazy]

Depends on what it's motives were....  What it did to Thomas for example, it didn't just beat him up to hold him to trap Harry... No, it sadistically did it over and over again to the point of death, so Thomas would have to feed until death over and over again, young innocent girls.. I call that sadistic...  So yeah,  depending on what it's orders were it is very capable of appearing as a handsome young man or worse yet murdering the husband or lover of the woman, taking his shape, get her pregnant, stick around as the loving lover or human until she gives birth, then reveal the horror that it is...

Very true.  Even if the woman wasn't a nun, the woman could be a very religious person and holder in strong beliefs.  Though, to go darker, the skinwalker might not even have killed the man, yet.  The man's torture, if he loved his wife, would be to be forced to watch from some portal or crystal his wife having dinner with the skinwalker, and then the sex and then the rape.  If the family was ignorant to the supernatural, the skinwalker might not even reveal his ruse to the wife, leaving her to think her husband did this to her.

[Mira]

Very true.  Even if the woman wasn't a nun, the woman could be a very religious person and holder in strong beliefs.  Though, to go darker, the skinwalker might not even have killed the man, yet.  The man's torture, if he loved his wife, would be to be forced to watch from some portal or crystal his wife having dinner with the skinwalker, and then the sex and then the rape.  If the family was ignorant to the supernatural, the skinwalker might not even reveal his ruse to the wife, leaving her to think her husband did this to her.

Yeah,  it doesn't take a lot of imagination from what we know of the skinwalker to think it not capable of that.   It also goes a long way to explain Goodman Grey's bitter attitude about a lot of things...  What comes to mind is he was a big reason why the mission to the vault ended in success yet, because of who his father was he cannot cross the threshold into Michael's yard..  Another thought just hit me, it could be the reason why his mother named him, "Goodman."   It's sending a message that genetics aside he is still basically a good person willing to fight the good fight.

[g33k]

Depends on what it's motives were....
  depending on what it's orders were ...

If it were under orders/compulsion, then sure; it could have done whatever it needed to.  Then I move over to wondering who/what gave the orders, and why, and whether THAT is going to become part of the ongoing DF plotline(s)?

But if it weren't compelled... I return to thinking that any extended seduction would have been more time and effort than it would have found worth expending for ANY mortal.  I think a "simple" seduction, lost-weekend style, or overt rape, would be all the time & effort a naagloshi would be willing to expend on any mortal.
 

[g33k]

... because of who his father was he cannot cross the threshold into Michael's yard...

I had understood that to be that Goodman had been previously bad, that he was reforming, but that he didn't think he would be accepted within the property by the guardians.

Not that there was a "threshold" to the yard, that he "couldn't" cross, just the property-line of the area the angels would defend, and he WOULD not choose to provoke them.

I think he is trying to earn his way into Heaven, but doesn't think he's close enough yet to risk crossing that line.