Bargaining with demons

[nadia.skylark]

What kind of things would a demon want in exchange for information, besides part of your name, that you don't have to hurt innocents to get?

[narphoenix]

All sorts of things.

The fundamental thing that I’d do is have them negotiate for things that are seemingly innocuous. Remember, the fundamental agenda of demons to spread evil. Maybe have the demon negotiate for something that turns out to be a simple solution to a problem later, but without which a PC needs to delve into a lot of complication and murky waters. Basically, take away something whose absence will cause a compel, later.

[Mr. Death]

Probably the same sorts of things Fae would -- information and power.

[Sanctaphrax]

There's a lot of evil vs evil in the Dresdenverse; a demon might ask for your help against a greater, or lesser, evil.

[whitelaughter]

is the demon trying to corrupt the wizard, or gain power?

Because if the goal is power, the simplest option is to ask for potions.

For corruption, the demon is going to be comparing the wizard to hundreds of generations of suckers, and going for the appropriate weak points - which in Dresdenverse is going to be compels.

[nadia.skylark]

Resurrecting this thread because I still haven't come up with anything.

The demon's agenda is to corrupt the wizard while appearing to be doing no such thing. Most of the time, the demon is going to be asking for things that seem to be good/neutral, but get the wizard embroiled in situations that are morally murky (to say the least). However, the first couple of things the demon asks for need to be actually harmless (or at least not cause the wizard any problems) or the wizard isn't going to keep bargaining with the demon. However, they also need to be things that a demon would plausibly want, or the wizard's going to realize that the demon is plotting something.

[KlausGerken]

How about the Demon asking for knowledge. Easy stuff at first, common knowledge about some restrictions in say shields cast with fire magic. Those questions are pretty tame. But later, if the wizard depends on him to gain infos, he asks for for more personal stuff in return. Personal information not of the wizard himself, but of an important person, either to your campaign, or a member of the Senior Council.

That could be a birthday, the middle name, stuff like that. In the end it becomes obvious that this demon is trying to compile data on that important person.

[g33k]

What kind of things would a demon want in exchange for information, besides part of your name, that you don't have to hurt innocents to get?

Have you read the Dresden short story The Warrior?  Overtly, it's about one conflict.  But at the end, Harry learns how his actions in the story had very very many far-reaching effects he completely didn't know about.

A demon could ask for seemingly-innocuous stuff that has those kinds of "hidden" knock-on effects...  "Go buy that upset-looking lady at the County Fair an ice-cream cone."  But what you don't know is that she's upset with her insanely-jealous boyfriend.  He's walking back to her as you leave, sees that Some Other Guy has bought His Girl a sweet treat.  So he drags her back home and beats her within an inch of her life.

etc...

[nadia.skylark]

Have you read the Dresden short story The Warrior?  Overtly, it's about one conflict.  But at the end, Harry learns how his actions in the story had very very many far-reaching effects he completely didn't know about.

A demon could ask for seemingly-innocuous stuff that has those kinds of "hidden" knock-on effects...  "Go buy that upset-looking lady at the County Fair an ice-cream cone."  But what you don't know is that she's upset with her insanely-jealous boyfriend.  He's walking back to her as you leave, sees that Some Other Guy has bought His Girl a sweet treat.  So he drags her back home and beats her within an inch of her life.

etc...

That is absolutely an awesome idea and I will be doing stuff like that. But my problem is that I need one or two things that look completely straightforward to be the first couple of bargains. If the demon asks the wizard to buy a random girl an ice cream in exchange for valuable information, the wizard is going to go "you're a demon, you don't do nice things, so this must be a spectacularly bad idea." Later, when the wizard trusts the demon, it won't be a problem, but the first, second, and maybe third things the demon asks for have to be the kind of thing where the wizard will go "yeah, I can see why a demon would want that, but it's not hurting any innocents, so why not?"

I know there must be things like that besides portions of a person's Name, because Harry states that he has called Chauncey up for information half a dozen times before Fool Moon, yet has only given the demon two parts of his Name, but I can't think of any.

[g33k]

... But my problem is that I need one or two things that look completely straightforward to be the first couple of bargains. If the demon asks the wizard to buy a random girl an ice cream in exchange for valuable information, the wizard is going to go "you're a demon, you don't do nice things, so this must be a spectacularly bad idea." Later, when the wizard trusts the demon, it won't be a problem, but the first, second, and maybe third things the demon asks for have to be the kind of thing where the wizard will go "yeah, I can see why a demon would want that, but it's not hurting any innocents, so why not?" 

I like the idea of potions, and other magic items.

Near the end of Small Favor, Dresden asks Eldest Gruff for a donut -- a mortal donut (no faerie glamour, etc).

I can see some other person bargaining with the demon, demanding a potion or other magic-item "Made by a mortal, not a demon!  And made without any form of black magic attached or used in creating the item!"  So the demon needs a source of said items.  And it will explain frankly, "hey, this other mortal dweeb wants something that I cannot make, but you can.  I'm just tryin' ta do business here, kind of a middleman."

So the demon wants your wizard to create some small-to-medium magic items, and do so entirely free of black magic.

It's a plausible explanation.

The demon may even be telling the truth about it... sometimes, for some of the items...

Maybe.

===

The demon may demand something "en passant" of something your wizard is already doing... say your wizard needs to track down a BadGuy(tm) before the innocent victim gets sacrificed on thane altar, and the demon will tell you where to find the BG(tm) and the Evil Altar of Evilness... and the cost will be:  you need to bring back some OTHER object you'll find there, and give it to the demon (like when Dresden handed Mavra the Word of Kemmler, at the end of Dead Beat).

[nadia.skylark]

I can see some other person bargaining with the demon, demanding a potion or other magic-item "Made by a mortal, not a demon!  And made without any form of black magic attached or used in creating the item!"  So the demon needs a source of said items.  And it will explain frankly, "hey, this other mortal dweeb wants something that I cannot make, but you can.  I'm just tryin' ta do business here, kind of a middleman."

So the demon wants your wizard to create some small-to-medium magic items, and do so entirely free of black magic.

It's a plausible explanation.

The demon may even be telling the truth about it... sometimes, for some of the items...

Maybe.

===

The demon may demand something "en passant" of something your wizard is already doing... say your wizard needs to track down a BadGuy(tm) before the innocent victim gets sacrificed on thane altar, and the demon will tell you where to find the BG(tm) and the Evil Altar of Evilness... and the cost will be:  you need to bring back some OTHER object you'll find there, and give it to the demon (like when Dresden handed Mavra the Word of Kemmler, at the end of Dead Beat).

These are awesome suggestions! I especially like the potions one. I've been trying to figure out why a demon would need mortal-crafted magic stuff, but your explanation works perfectly.

[g33k]

These are awesome suggestions! I especially like the potions one. I've been trying to figure out why a demon would need mortal-crafted magic stuff, but your explanation works perfectly.

Hey, any time kid!  Glad to help.

The first few are free, no strings!  Just as a sign of good faith...