I think Murphy is going to get killed here is why

[g33k]

I don't see Harry improving much either. His character flawS isare still there and making trouble from time to time as alwaysvirtually all the time.

fixed it for ya!

[morriswalters]

It seems rather insensitive to call attention to the fact that the poster uses English as a second language by pointing out problems with his usage.  The language is clear enough.

[nadia.skylark]

Murphy has improve too. She don't punch Harry anymore.

Once again, you did not read what I posted earlier. I will re-post what I said about this point:

I had thought she was improving in later books, and quite liked her, but then Cold Days made me re-evaluate, and caused me to conclude that she didn't actually improve that much, but rather her character flaws just weren't directed at Harry in those books.

[Bad Alias]

[1.] Listen in the midst of Battle? Are you serious? That sounds suicidal to me.?

[2.] And as for Murphy reading Harry's rights when fighting Mcfinn. Well, Harry is a suspect. Not just a suspect, but a suspect that escape police custody. Reading his rights is as it should be. If she is still angry, she would have gave Harry another punch or just shoot him.

Having a good talk under those circumstances simply isn't right.

1. The point of this is that she is still behaving irrationally. I'd be fine with the "you're still under arrest" quip. She's trying to arrest Harry while the most dangerous thing either of them has ever seen is killing her men. 2. If she's to busy to figure out what's going on, she's too busy to arrest Harry or even read him his rights. If she's not too busy, then she's not too busy. One must give Murphy the benefit of the doubt in every instance to come to the conclusions you do. I don't think that is reasonable.

It seems rather insensitive to call attention to the fact that the poster uses English as a second language by pointing out problems with his usage.  The language is clear enough.

Jimmy was talking about a character flaw that occasionally causes problem. g33k was making the point that Harry has many character flaws that constantly cause problems. I find that Harry has improved most of his character flaws a good deal, or there is some new magical influence that makes him more susceptible to that flaw which he has to deal with, so even if he is behaving/thinking worse, it's not because he isn't improving himself.

[nadia.skylark]

1. The point of this is that she is still behaving irrationally. I'd be fine with the "you're still under arrest" quip. She's trying to arrest Harry while the most dangerous thing either of them has ever seen is killing her men. 2. If she's to busy to figure out what's going on, she's too busy to arrest Harry or even read him his rights. If she's not too busy, then she's not too busy. One must give Murphy the benefit of the doubt in every instance to come to the conclusions you do. I don't think that is reasonable.

Jimmy was talking about a character flaw that occasionally causes problem. g33k was making the point that Harry has many character flaws that constantly cause problems. I find that Harry has improved most of his character flaws a good deal, or there is some new magical influence that makes him more susceptible to that flaw which he has to deal with, so even if he is behaving/thinking worse, it's not because he isn't improving himself.

I agree with all of this.

[Bad Alias]

And as for Murphy and her character flaws, I think she has improved a good deal over the series too. She's had some major setbacks, so some backsliding here and there is to be expected. (The nightmare attack, breaking the law in Blood Rights, being demoted in Proven Guilty, losing her job in Skin Game, discovering Dresden is almost certainly dead followed by the Fomor conflict, and the circumstances of Dresden's return).

[Mira]

And as for Murphy and her character flaws, I think she has improved a good deal over the series too. She's had some major setbacks, so some backsliding here and there is to be expected. (The nightmare attack, breaking the law in Blood Rights, being demoted in Proven Guilty, losing her job in Skin Game, discovering Dresden is almost certainly dead followed by the Fomor conflict, and the circumstances of Dresden's return).

Her one character flaw remains,  when she thinks she is right, her mind closes up like a clam..  Harry completely trusts her judgement so he doesn't see it, love may have something to do with it.

[Wolfeyes]

Her one character flaw remains,  when she thinks she is right, her mind closes up like a clam..  Harry completely trusts her judgement so he doesn't see it, love may have something to do with it.

Harry's been trusting his back to Murphy long before he realized he had feelings for her. It's not just love that makes him ask for Murphy to be there for him. He doesn't stop and really think of how his actions look in Cold Days until she spells it out for him. Nor in White Night does he start thinking of the hypocrisy in him railing on Molly for being impulsive with her power until she points out him lashing out with his powers and doing property damage, on top of scaring Molly with the face-melty fireball (aka, one of the factors that helps Harry realize the effects Lash is having on his head). It's that track history that gets him to bring her as his +1 on the Skin Game heist.

Murphy has flaws but Harry's faith in her isn't shown to be unfounded. She's not infallible but Butcher often uses her as Harry's soundboard and a counterpoint mouthpiece to some of his ideas because Harry misses things and other times she gives him a chance to articulate his thoughts. Harry doesn't blindly trust Michael or Father Forthill or Ebenezer either - he trusts them because their judgement often helps.

Unless Harry's really secretly in love with Michael too : P.

[huangjimmy108]

And as for Murphy and her character flaws, I think she has improved a good deal over the series too. She's had some major setbacks, so some backsliding here and there is to be expected. (The nightmare attack, breaking the law in Blood Rights, being demoted in Proven Guilty, losing her job in Skin Game, discovering Dresden is almost certainly dead followed by the Fomor conflict, and the circumstances of Dresden's return).

A character flaw is not that easy to conquer. It is almost like the concept of heart demon in Xianxia novels, anyone who is capable of truly conquering it might as well achieve Nirvana and ascend to heaven already.

If we want to find excuses to infer that Murphy is bac sliding, we can. If we want to find reasons why she is improving, we can. The same with Harry. It is highly subjective.

What I can't understand why when it comes to Murphy, people tends to ignore how Harry respond to it by the simple excuse of "Harry is having a guilt complex" or "Harry is weak to a female in general and to Murphy specifically"

Do you guys realize how much those assertions cheapens Harry's value. It makes Harry sounds like a hen pek loser of a weakling and an idiot too. In book 8, it is shown that Harry accepted Murphy's apology and acknowledge it. It even goes so far as Harry being ashame for digging the case up in argument. Six years has pass after the events in FM and people still think that Harry is unable to realize that he is unfairly treated because he is having a guilt complex. Hells bells!

Harry is a wizard, a freaking wise man. Where is his wisdom. Where is his self respect? Where is his intelligence? Being soft to females can't possibly go this far, can it?

It can be said that the series is about 90% from Harry's PoV. If we cheapens Harry that much, how does the value of the series becomes?

[nadia.skylark]

What I can't understand why when it comes to Murphy, people tends to ignore how Harry respond to it by the simple excuse of "Harry is having a guilt complex" or "Harry is weak to a female in general and to Murphy specifically"

Do you guys realize how much those assertions cheapens Harry's value. It makes Harry sounds like a hen pek loser of a weakling and an idiot too. In book 8, it is shown that Harry accepted Murphy's apology and acknowledge it. It even goes so far as Harry being ashame for digging the case up in argument. Six years has pass after the events in FM and people still think that Harry is unable to realize that he is unfairly treated because he is having a guilt complex. Hells bells!

Harry is a wizard, a freaking wise man. Where is his wisdom. Where is his self respect? Where is his intelligence? Being soft to females can't possibly go this far, can it?

It can be said that the series is about 90% from Harry's PoV. If we cheapens Harry that much, how does the value of the series becomes?

So, wait, now Murphy is allowed to have character flaws but Harry isn't? Because that's what having this kind of guilt complex is for Harry. Murphy's arrogance manifests in her placing her judgement above other people's, and Harry's arrogance manifests in him blaming himself for everything--ie, his guilt complex. Personally, I find Harry's manifestation of arrogance far more likable (since, among other things, it is far less likely to hurt other people) than Murphy's, but I have never claimed that either of them having this character flaw somehow "cheapens" them!

You seem to be claiming that for Harry to have character flaws, or at least this character flaw, somehow invalidates both his entire character and the whole book series. That seems ridiculous to me, so perhaps I'm misunderstanding. Could you please clarify whether or not this is what you meant, and if not, what you did mean?

[huangjimmy108]

So, wait, now Murphy is allowed to have character flaws but Harry isn't? Because that's what having this kind of guilt complex is for Harry. Murphy's arrogance manifests in her placing her judgement above other people's, and Harry's arrogance manifests in him blaming himself for everything--ie, his guilt complex. Personally, I find Harry's manifestation of arrogance far more likable (since, among other things, it is far less likely to hurt other people) than Murphy's, but I have never claimed that either of them having this character flaw somehow "cheapens" them!

You seem to be claiming that for Harry to have character flaws, or at least this character flaw, somehow invalidates both his entire character and the whole book series. That seems ridiculous to me, so perhaps I'm misunderstanding. Could you please clarify whether or not this is what you meant, and if not, what you did mean?

I am not saying Harry can't get a character flaw. I am just saying it can't possibly be that bad. He is a wizard after all. Making a mistake in the heat of the moment is one thing. But if you are still mistaken after having 6 years of comtemplation, that is something else entirely. Not to mention, in this case, Harry seem not to realize that he is being unfairly treated at all. He is still helping Murphy counting the money after Murphy sold him off.

[nadia.skylark]

I am not saying Harry can't get a character flaw. I am just saying it can't possibly be that bad. He is a wizard after all. Making a mistake in the heat of the moment is one thing. But if you are still mistaken after having 6 years of comtemplation, that is something else entirely. Not to mention, in this case, Harry seem not to realize that he is being unfairly treated at all. He is still helping Murphy counting the money after Murphy sold him off.

Once again, you demonstrate that you have problems remembering things I've previously posted, and once again I will re-post the relevant bit:

In that time, Murphy and he have become friends, so it makes sense that he doesn't really think about it that much. Also, in Fool Moon Harry's subconscious notes that he's been blaming himself for Elaine's fall to darkness (at that point, he didn't know that she had been enthralled) for ten years, so...

[huangjimmy108]

Once again, you demonstrate that you have problems remembering things I've previously posted, and once again I will re-post the relevant bit:

I don't remember it because it does not make sense.

Birds of a feather flocks together, and people who walks different roads cannot make plan together.

If Murphy is so manipulative and abusive, and Harry is still treat her as a friend, that in itself speaks badly about Harry. If he does not even realize he is being manipulated and abuse, he is a fool. If he realize the manipulation and is willing to accept such a treatment, that makes him into a loser.

Murphy and Harry has been partners for a long time. The love hurts SS even portrayed them as a great team. There must be a reason for it. One person keeps manipulating and the other person keep being manipulated and even being happy and content about it, and the guy is suppose to be a wizarcd. Don't you feel it is a joke??

[Bad Alias]

If we want to find excuses to infer that Murphy is bac sliding, we can. If we want to find reasons why she is improving, we can. The same with Harry.

They both backslide and you can't backslide without first improving. It's not surprising that they backslide either, as I said.

We know why Harry has these character flaws. We don't know where Murphy's come from.

[nadia.skylark]

Birds of a feather flocks together, and people who walks different roads cannot make plan together.

If Murphy is so manipulative and abusive, and Harry is still treat her as a friend, that in itself speaks badly about Harry. If he does not even realize he is being manipulated and abuse, he is a fool. If he realize the manipulation and is willing to accept such a treatment, that makes him into a loser.

Murphy and Harry has been partners for a long time. The love hurts SS even portrayed them as a great team. There must be a reason for it. One person keeps manipulating and the other person keep being manipulated and even being happy and content about it, and the guy is suppose to be a wizarcd. Don't you feel it is a joke??

Wow. Just...wow. This is the single most victim-blaming statement I have ever read. If you can't understand what's wrong with what you said, then I don't really want to talk to you.