Harry's pain-blocking stunt

[Sanctaphrax]

Alright, here's a list of existing approaches. Off the top of my head, so probably not complete.

1. A character Aspect.
2. A temporary Aspect, created through a spell or a mundane maneuver.
3. Extra consequences from a stunt like No Pain No Gain.
4. Less harmful consequences from a stunt like Unshakable.
5. The Feel No Pain custom Power.
6. A stunt letting you use Conviction or Discipline for your physical stress track.
7. Inhuman Toughness with an appropriate Catch.

[nadia.skylark]

1. A character Aspect.
2. A temporary Aspect, created through a spell or a mundane maneuver.

I'm trying to come up with something that doesn't require you to spend a load of fate points, so aspects are out.

3. Extra consequences from a stunt like No Pain No Gain.

Good idea. What kind of extra consequences (as in mild/moderate/severe, and should there be multiples)

4. Less harmful consequences from a stunt like Unshakable.

I don't think I've seen this stunt. Would you be able to either post it here or direct me to where I can find it?

5. The Feel No Pain custom Power.

This power explicitly says you "suffer no stress from attacks based on pain." This seemed overpowered to me, since most of the damage that I understand stress to represent (bruises, minor cuts) would, in my opinion, qualify as attacks based on pain. After all, if they're not hurting, they rarely interfere with your actions. Also, what "attacks based on pain" means is fairly unclear to me. I tend to think of it as "inflicting damage that only affects you if it hurts" but I'm not confident about that.

It also offers an additional minor physical consequence, which is a good idea.

6. A stunt letting you use Conviction or Discipline for your physical stress track.

This would be a cool idea, but it's not what this power is narratively. This seems more like what the Winter Knight mantle allows you to do.

7. Inhuman Toughness with an appropriate Catch.

It really specifically isn't this. Every time Harry uses it, he says that it puts him at risk, because not feeling pain is dangerous. Inhuman toughness isn't this at all.

[Sanctaphrax]

I'm trying to come up with something that doesn't require you to spend a load of fate points, so aspects are out.

You don't need FP to use maneuvers.

Good idea. What kind of extra consequences (as in mild/moderate/severe, and should there be multiples)

One mild for anything you want, or two with some kind of usage limitation.

I don't think I've seen this stunt. Would you be able to either post it here or direct me to where I can find it?

Your Story page 151.

This power explicitly says you "suffer no stress from attacks based on pain." This seemed overpowered to me, since most of the damage that I understand stress to represent (bruises, minor cuts) would, in my opinion, qualify as attacks based on pain. After all, if they're not hurting, they rarely interfere with your actions. Also, what "attacks based on pain" means is fairly unclear to me. I tend to think of it as "inflicting damage that only affects you if it hurts" but I'm not confident about that.

Attacks based on pain refers to magical pain infliction, mental attacks based on torture, and the like. A punch isn't an attack based on pain even if pain is the main thing it ends up inflicting.

This would be a cool idea, but it's not what this power is narratively. This seems more like what the Winter Knight mantle allows you to do.

Not sure I see the difference.

It really specifically isn't this. Every time Harry uses it, he says that it puts him at risk, because not feeling pain is dangerous. Inhuman toughness isn't this at all.

That's mostly just narration, and maybe the occasional Compel. The Catch can cover anything else that needs covering.

[nadia.skylark]

You don't need FP to use maneuvers.

You do if you want to invoke an aspect more than once.

One mild for anything you want, or two with some kind of usage limitation.

What counts as a usage limitation? Does a time limit for when you can use them count?

Your Story page 151.

Thanks! I'm doing something similar by saying that you can't have physical consequences invoked against you, I think.

Attacks based on pain refers to magical pain infliction, mental attacks based on torture, and the like. A punch isn't an attack based on pain even if pain is the main thing it ends up inflicting.

Thanks.

Probably won't be using this, though, since the pain-block is specifically something that can be broken if you hurt the person enough.

Not sure I see the difference.

Narratively, it reads completely different. Mechanically, the pain-block is supposed to help people even when they have high endurance, and swapping one high skill for another doesn't help much.

That's mostly just narration, and maybe the occasional Compel. The Catch can cover anything else that needs covering.

I guess. I was trying to replicate the effect by making physical stress and consequences heal slower if you used the pain-block.

[Sanctaphrax]

You do if you want to invoke an aspect more than once.

Aspects are true even when they're not invoked, though. I don't think it's a problem if the pain-block only provides a mechanical bonus once per use.

What counts as a usage limitation? Does a time limit for when you can use them count?

I think just about anything can work. The actual rules are on Your Story page 148 if you'd prefer to consult them directly.

[nadia.skylark]

Here's the new version:

[-2] A Block Against Pain: You have mental discipline to block out pain, preventing it from effecting you. You do this by rolling your discipline skill, and gain the following effects for a number of scenes equal to half your roll (rounded up): You automatically succeed on any roll meant to ignore or endure your own suffering, and nobody gets a free tag for inflicting a physical consequence on you. In addition, you gain an additional two mild physical consequences. However, any consequences you have while this block is up heal as if they were one step more severe.

[Sanctaphrax]

2 Refresh and reverse Recovery in exchange for immunity to pain, untaggable consequences, and no two milds seems fair. At least at a glance.

I don't think the Discipline roll is doing anything good, though. Since there's no cost to roll, it doesn't really matter how long it lasts; you can always just put it up again when it ends.

[g33k]

In keeping with the description in the novels (dangerous to use, easy to over-use) what about the idea of /unlimited/ Mild Physical Consequences?

You can shunt all the ordinary pains off until you get overwhelmed (or have time to deal with them).

The danger comes if you get hit with enough pain to overwhelm the Stunt... and then all of it comes home to roost at once.  If you've been relying on it -- have absorbed too many Consequences -- you probably go straight to Taken Out.

If you come out of the conflict still standing, you go to the doctor and get stitched up, bones set, whatever, go home and take your heavy-duty painkillers, and go to bed... the Stunt wears off overnight, you wake up facing all the pain...  Just not when you needed to be up & fighting.

 

[nadia.skylark]

In keeping with the description in the novels (dangerous to use, easy to over-use) what about the idea of /unlimited/ Mild Physical Consequences?

You can shunt all the ordinary pains off until you get overwhelmed (or have time to deal with them).

The danger comes if you get hit with enough pain to overwhelm the Stunt... and then all of it comes home to roost at once.  If you've been relying on it -- have absorbed too many Consequences -- you probably go straight to Taken Out.

If you come out of the conflict still standing, you go to the doctor and get stitched up, bones set, whatever, go home and take your heavy-duty painkillers, and go to bed... the Stunt wears off overnight, you wake up facing all the pain...  Just not when you needed to be up & fighting.

This would be a great idea! Do you have any ideas for how to represent "enough pain to overwhelm the stunt"? Right now there's nothing to overwhelm; you just get a bunch of effects.

[g33k]

This would be a great idea! Do you have any ideas for how to represent "enough pain to overwhelm the stunt"? Right now there's nothing to overwhelm; you just get a bunch of effects.

Off the top of my head, it'd be "enough boxes of damage in 1 hit to fill the track, if you didn't shuffle them off to Consequences."  Any hit that big overwhelms the stunt, and then You're In Trouble.

No idea how to cost it out in Refresh, though!       Sorry!

[Sanctaphrax]

Unlimited consequences is basically invincibility, so that could very easily be broken. But of course it depends on the limitations, and the bypass methods.

Limiting the unlimited milds to one per attack would help keep the thing in check. At that point it's basically just armour 2 that gives you an aspect and your opponent a tag. Not very scary.

[nadia.skylark]

Unlimited consequences is basically invincibility, so that could very easily be broken. But of course it depends on the limitations, and the bypass methods.

Limiting the unlimited milds to one per attack would help keep the thing in check. At that point it's basically just armour 2 that gives you an aspect and your opponent a tag. Not very scary.

What about two mild, two moderate, and two severe consequences (and this power specifically stops your opponent from getting tags on them, but on the other hand they heal slower)? And if your opponent hits you with an attack that's higher than your initial discipline roll, they can choose to use the shifts that go over it to erode your ability to use this power (when it is reduced to zero, it is disabled, and your opponent gets a tag on all your consequences) instead of inflicting them as damage to you?

[Sanctaphrax]

I don't know what you mean by "erode your ability to use this Power".

And honestly, the whole things sounds overcomplicated and fiddly.

[nadia.skylark]

I don't know what you mean by "erode your ability to use this Power".

I was thinking something sort of like a contest, only with just one person. If you roll discipline for +6, then your opponent(s) have to devote 6 stress to breaking down the pain-block, at which point you lose access to the power's benefits, and need a round of quiet focus to put it back up (during which any attack against you is considered an ambush, similar to if you're trying to cast a thaumaturgy spell in the middle of a fight).

And honestly, the whole things sounds overcomplicated and fiddly.

Yeah, but after having devoted this much time to it, I want to get it right.

[Sanctaphrax]

If you want to do it right, you should probably do it simply. Complexity is generally bad.