Is there anything Mab can't command Harry to do? (Getting out of the WK idea.)

[Snark Knight]

Jim said she did fix his back.  The deal was for his back to be healed, and she followed through on the deal.  It's not the first time Mab has healed anyone.  I do believe she healed Mac from a gunshot wound.

I read that as she dug the bullet out of him, and Mac being whatever Mac is was responsible for the fast healing.

[nadia.skylark]

Harry could lie his butt off as Winter Knight.  What he couldn't do was break the laws of hospitality.

Well, technically I think he could break the laws of hospitality, it's just that it would, per his words in Skin Game, be a spectacularly bad idea.

What does hospitality have to do with anything, anyway?

[Mira]

Well, technically I think he could break the laws of hospitality, it's just that it would, per his words in Skin Game, be a spectacularly bad idea.

What does hospitality have to do with anything, anyway?

  A lot,  while it isn't quite what the neutral territory Mac's bar is, it is almost that..  Hostilities are suspended while the rules of hospitality are in force, to violate them is an act of war.  Actually if I remember correctly in Grave Peril it is the rules of hospitality that Harry supposedly broke, that is why the RC wanted him so badly or go to war with the White Court.

[nadia.skylark]

A lot,  while it isn't quite what the neutral territory Mac's bar is, it is almost that..  Hostilities are suspended while the rules of hospitality are in force, to violate them is an act of war.  Actually if I remember correctly in Grave Peril it is the rules of hospitality that Harry supposedly broke, that is why the RC wanted him so badly or go to war with the White Court.

Wait, what? I had thought hospitality came up in reference to a list of things that Harry could do but faeries couldn't, which was itself posted as an explanation for why Harry wouldn't necessarily assume that Winter Law applied to him (and so he wasn't trying to weasel out of his responsibilities as Mab's Knight when he broke it). I'm not sure how hospitality has to do with anything, unless the claim is that faeries are incapable of breaking it (which may be the case).

Also, I think there's a WoJ that the way neutral territory works is that everyone present is essentially Mab's guest.

[KurtinStGeorge]

Very true. On a related note, does anyone have any theories for why Mab hasn't given Harry a way to know what Winter Law is before he breaks it?

I wish I had a good answer for you, but I only have another question which might lead to an answer.  Do you remember the name Tam Lin? (According to Wikipedia, also a lot of other names.)  Mab mentioned him after Harry flash froze a sidhe noble at his birthday party in Arctis Tor.  Mab's exact words were: "No one has lifted a hand to them that way since the days of Tam Lin."  This strongly suggests Tam Lin was the Winter Knight back in the day.

I've read a wiki article about Tam Lin.  It mentions the fae were after him, I think they were going to sacrifice him.  From what I read I pictured the Wild Hunt was after him.  A mortal women hides Tam.  There's a lot of shape shifting involved in keeping him hidden from the fae but eventually he escapes.  I'm thinking that in one of the poems or stories about Tam Lin there might be a clue to the Winter Law Mab might want to keep hidden from Harry.

Looking over the wiki article, there are many people who have used the character of Tam Lin in their own stories and there was even a movie made in 1970 titled: Tam-Lin, also known as The Ballad of Tam-Lin, The Devil's Widow and The Devil's Woman.  It was directed by Roddy McDowall and it took place in modern London of 1970.  (Sort of an Austin Powers version of a spooky fairy tale.)  From reading a review on IMDB, Ava Gardner played the Fairy Queen, though from looking at the movie poster, her character may have more in common with Lara Raith than Mab.  The point I want to make is; for all we know Jim might have seen this movie on some late night cable channel and lifted an element from the movie to create a Winter Law or two.  (I never even heard of this movie before I read the Wiki article.)

If anyone has read the original poem or song of Tam Lin, that might be a good place to look for clues.     

[morriswalters]

Wait, what? I had thought hospitality came up in reference to a list of things that Harry could do but faeries couldn't, which was itself posted as an explanation for why Harry wouldn't necessarily assume that Winter Law applied to him (and so he wasn't trying to weasel out of his responsibilities as Mab's Knight when he broke it). I'm not sure how hospitality has to do with anything, unless the claim is that faeries are incapable of breaking it (which may be the case).

Also, I think there's a WoJ that the way neutral territory works is that everyone present is essentially Mab's guest.

The Laws of Hospitality are an agreement between arcane groups, Winter Law is a property of Winter.  Because of that, if Mab so chooses, the Laws of Hospitality become law for Winter.  But Harry isn't Winter, he's human.  His Mantle on the other hand is Winter.  The Wiki describes Winter Law as emanating from Mab.  Harry will know if he breaks Winter Law, the Mantle will tell him, kinda.

[Mira]

The Laws of Hospitality are an agreement between arcane groups, Winter Law is a property of Winter.  Because of that, if Mab so chooses, the Laws of Hospitality become law for Winter.  But Harry isn't Winter, he's human.  His Mantle on the other hand is Winter.  The Wiki describes Winter Law as emanating from Mab.  Harry will know if he breaks Winter Law, the Mantle will tell him, kinda.

But the Law of Hospitality applies to wizards as well, last time I checked, Harry is still a wizard.

[morriswalters]

Yes, wizards are an arcane group.  But Mab doesn't hold sway over them accepting by acts of violence.  On the other hand Toot knows and obeys the way he breathes, automatically.

[nadia.skylark]

But the Law of Hospitality applies to wizards as well, last time I checked, Harry is still a wizard.

I think in Skin Game Harry mentions that the consequences of breaking hospitality are that everyone tries to kill you and something about having super-bad luck from then on (it's the chapter where he meets Hades; I don't remember exactly what he says).

[Mira]

I think in Skin Game Harry mentions that the consequences of breaking hospitality are that everyone tries to kill you and something about having super-bad luck from then on (it's the chapter where he meets Hades; I don't remember exactly what he says).

That has been true since Storm Front.