Skingame - why was Nicodemus hurtable?

[toodeep]

Why was Harry able to hurt Nicodemus in Skingame?  He hit him a few times and for quite some time afterward we see Nicodemus favoring his side, having a hitch in his movement because of the blows from Harry, etc.  All the way into the scene where he locks Harry into the bank behind him he is still injured.

But Nicodemus is still wearing the noose and we've seen him recover from bullet wounds in front of our eyes (and apparently not be bothered by them as they occur, as he can roll his eyes and make a "get on with it" gesture while being shot!) so why did Harry's blows bother him so much?

I can't think of any reason and it seems like a real inconsistency.

[Mr. Death]

It's possible that being in Hades interfered with his normal immunity.

[wardenferry419]

Whenever there is a problem; blame Mab.

[peregrine]

Perhaps bone takes longer for the noose to heal than soft tissue, and a massive bludgeoning is going to do more bone damage than some bullets.  Also possibly magical ice hurts more than non-magical bullets.

[Snark Knight]

Perhaps bone takes longer for the noose to heal than soft tissue, and a massive bludgeoning is going to do more bone damage than some bullets.  Also possibly magical ice hurts more than non-magical bullets.

Crush trauma can be quite nasty, yeah. I figure the environment in Hades' vault was probably a factor too though.

[kbrizzle]

Or perhaps being that close to objects like the Grail & the Shroud severely weakened Anduriel & the protection he is able to provide Nic.

[exartiem]

Or perhaps being that close to objects like the Grail & the Shroud severely weakened Anduriel & the protection he is able to provide Nic.

I like this theory.  Another: the noose acts on lethal injuries or injuries that could kill eventually.  Non-life-threatening injuries aren't covered, no matter how painful they are.

[Snark Knight]

Or perhaps being that close to objects like the Grail & the Shroud severely weakened Anduriel & the protection he is able to provide Nic.

I think the near-instant healing factor is entirely courtesy of the noose, not Anduriel. Rapid healing would be an application shape-shifting, like Tessa's ability to reassemble herself from her bug swarm form, but Andy isn't nearly that capable at shape shifting. Unless Nic had some reason not to want Andy to repair the damage from the noose that Harry left on his through - and he had every reason to want to keep up the appearance of industructability in front of his squires - it seems that was outright beyond Anduriel even given years to work on it.

I like this theory.  Another: the noose acts on lethal injuries or injuries that could kill eventually.  Non-life-threatening injuries aren't covered, no matter how painful they are.

Maaaaybe ... but it would have to be pretty darn intelligent to tell the difference between a wound that would mean slow death over a period of days to intervene after, vs. one where the bearer would survive but be left crippled. That kind of borderline outcome is a matter of odds rather than certainty even in a hospital.

[kbrizzle]

Here is another possibility - Harry specifically mentions a few times during the fight scene in Hades’ vault that he was fighting both Nic & Anduriel - meaning that each entity was fighting separate battles (Nic vs Michael & Anduriel be Harry). Couple this with the fact that the Swords basically remove any supernatural advantage an opponent has, and you have Nicodemus without any supernatural powers.

TLDR - Anduriel was too busy fighting to provide its supernatural cover for Nic, along with the fact that the Swords negate supernatural advantages

[RobReece]

Here is another possibility - Harry specifically mentions a few times during the fight scene in Hades’ vault that he was fighting both Nic & Anduriel - meaning that each entity was fighting separate battles (Nic vs Michael & Anduriel be Harry). Couple this with the fact that the Swords basically remove any supernatural advantage an opponent has, and you have Nicodemus without any supernatural powers.

TLDR - Anduriel was too busy fighting to provide its supernatural cover for Nic, along with the fact that the Swords negate supernatural advantages

That was my thought as well. I think Nic was healed by the time he got to Michael's house, but Anduriel was otherwise engaged during the fight itself to provide his normal levels of protection.

[peregrine]

I don't know that the Swords necessarily eliminate ALL supernatural advantages of their opponent.  A Sword may cut through a supernaturally tough enemy, perhaps even parry a magical blow, but it doesn't stop a guy from being able to uproot a tree and hit you with it.  The presence of a Sword didn't stop Nic from being able to fly after the train, for example. 

[toodeep]

Here is another possibility - Harry specifically mentions a few times during the fight scene in Hades’ vault that he was fighting both Nic & Anduriel - meaning that each entity was fighting separate battles (Nic vs Michael & Anduriel be Harry). Couple this with the fact that the Swords basically remove any supernatural advantage an opponent has, and you have Nicodemus without any supernatural powers.

TLDR - Anduriel was too busy fighting to provide its supernatural cover for Nic, along with the fact that the Swords negate supernatural advantages

Except that Nic's invulnerability comes from the Noose, not Anduriel.  There has always been a question about whether Nic can even be killed by the swords, since he has the noose; and the fallen angels definitely don't provide protection against the swords.  My guess is the only way a sword could kill him would be a beheading where the noose comes off in the process. (which is more likely than it seems when you think of the "luck" the swords wielders can sometimes experience.

[Kindler]

If the Swords negated Nic's healing factor, I'm relatively certain that he would've been killed by a Knight at some point over the last two millennia.

To the OP: It's something that nagged at me, too, and I don't have an answer for it. The only thing I can come up with is that the fight took place over a much shorter time than you'd think from the way it was written, really only taking a few minutes (albeit over several dozen pages), and that Nic did indeed heal back up once he fled.

[Snark Knight]

If the Swords negated Nic's healing factor, I'm relatively certain that he would've been killed by a Knight at some point over the last two millennia.

I tend to agree, but one shouldn't underrate just how skilled a swordsman Nic is. Beyond just the centuries to practice over, he's also had the luxury of being able to fight anyone but the Knights and learn from his mistakes with no consequences beyond ruining his shirts.

[peregrine]

Funny idea, the Swords negate his healing, but the Noose doesn't let him die anyways.  Nic is stuck with a non-fatal wound that never heals.